From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:07:47 +0300 Message-ID: <83pm7z7nkc.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> <1a5e5837-513b-84d8-3260-cdbf42b71267@gutov.dev> <83sfcz9rf2.fsf@gnu.org> <09a49ab9-ac72-36a9-3e68-9c633710eba7@gutov.dev> <83r0sh8i1q.fsf@gnu.org> <35638c9d-e13f-fad8-5f95-ea03d65d4aa2@gmail.com> <87a5z3izst.fsf@web.de> <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17747"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: arne_bab@web.de, jporterbugs@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 19 20:07:51 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCDf-0004RS-FH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:07:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCDS-0005pl-Tz; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:07:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCDQ-0005pZ-Ve for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:07:37 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCDQ-0005Ss-DE; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:07:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=Gk0s+ebZ5cNXEJqE3XfodW7wBBYKS1EWniH21Bygm/I=; b=R3ErV5VwnunsU6HjldNv p0h399p9hw6ohBmMzCioWaGlDGs+aNSTQVL0VjztBMMO/MAjlyyDVflm4QbF60wpUHfV6BIaHoL7c hbKb2+XQXjUQDheSU2k6KnOXhX2rkONw+h2qWILMLxFlXIBc16qfp3KNKTvjhIN+/Uuibkm4sn30N R6+w7qHHK3CvzAD+nss/VW1jNCIwkpysW4xW3J0lk81NUNX9T5vDJmlSwQy1rw0Wn5GemKLT9DoKP bRxFGVVu6WSGUpQmRAfiALo2uJRF0/lAGLJbP5pWmxz6SmonzF2MST1iV3HWSfn775WiXAn4JOkmh mPqGW4+8XQpoQQ==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCDP-0007kY-Nd; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:07:36 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= on Wed, 19 Apr 2023 18:21:23 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305450 Archived-At: > From: João Távora > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 18:21:23 +0100 > Cc: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" , jporterbugs@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > But I acknowledge that if some user has > > (package-install always-has-been-a-core-package) > > in her Emacs 26/27/28 config, then some behaviour would have been > changed with some of my previous solutions. I give you that, it > doesn't need contesting. > > And that is why I later I gave a solution that _doesn't_, > I repeat, _doesn't_ let that happen. That solution is in > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=62720#467 > > It's a minimal patch, much smaller than the one that did make > it in. I've linked to it many times now, but it has always > been ignored by all except Philip and Dmitry, who said it was a > "fine" solution and +1, respectively. > > It will _not_ update Xref and ElDoc _unless_ the user specifically > asked for Eglot to be installed. Which is, of course, exactly what > happened already in Emacs 28. For example, if the user has > > (package-install 'project) > > It _won't_ be updated. And neither will its dependency Xref. Again, just like > in Emacs 28. > > Why are we ignoring my patch? What's really wrong with it? In > technical terms, if possible. It has similar problems: it will automatically update packages mentioned in package--safely-upgradeable-builtins, which might not be what users want for built-in packages. You assume that everyone will want Eglot and use-package automatically updated, but this assumption has no real basis. I object in general to any feature that unexpectedly installs some software without the explicit user's say-so. Plus, it adds to the maintenance burden of maintaining this (internal? not a defcustom??) variable for good. Those issues were enough for me to reject the proposal.