From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 15:48:19 +0300 Message-ID: <83pm14kwz0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83lebyu5yx.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f43123d7dee59461@heytings.org> <835y2xo1a5.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f4312391906f6101@heytings.org> <831qdlo084.fsf@gnu.org> <83msw8n43r.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1fs75mx.fsf@localhost> <837cncmewi.fsf@gnu.org> <87fs209ora.fsf@localhost> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31026"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, gregory@heytings.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 24 14:49:10 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvGqK-0007tA-Vl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 14:49:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvGph-0004dJ-KR; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 08:48:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvGpf-0004cW-As for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 08:48:27 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvGpe-0002mK-Ro; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 08:48:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=BPqccVmni/pKOtiBzANROFUATsIB+LevDzir877Os7I=; b=QKBXPWlqsvO0 //2t4RGr/VCT92NGKqNJ7Btl9tAN+mYqugCx1IHVAHTcTZ7od/BZ5zrVeL82qzpi6smFHbMlficLe rsk0pXHC86SV7LCUpPlYfdYFRmX7rawhtUoNHzXqDQk1vYbWV7kXgj/0LdVVYonWKFqg6QhHIGP3w MAgjJLT04hmezEZrMvjErTJH8fhkjv8q94lgGGmG+98MWIhR9O0Ay5SPYhLF2b9uNqJlJlGACCn2K +ruO/8bgl5A3ed4oNstjIxyyyZIDEkH6rgGdGQTnWv69ui9FWACHYcDftTBTvk/0KYPi9YXYx8/Cz quCZN9dY/bpUD063wAWQ+A==; In-Reply-To: <87fs209ora.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Tue, 24 Oct 2023 12:41:13 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311786 Archived-At: > From: Ihor Radchenko > Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, gregory@heytings.org, rms@gnu.org, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 12:41:13 +0000 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> > Sure, but that's rather subjective. One could also argue that it is a > >> > good thing to have certain symbols available immediately, for example > >> > because they are typically needed. > >> > >> Could it be customizeable somehow? > > > > What do you want to be customizable, and how? > > What I have in mind is a custom list of packages to be dumped. You can easily edit lisp/loadup.el and add whatever you want. So this possibility already exists. > >> I have seen articles using portable dumper to pre-load more libraries, > >> but it was rather cumbersome and fragile exercise. It might be of > >> interest for people interested in reducing the startup time to have > >> a command like M-x dump-emacs-using-already-loaded-built-in-libraries. > >> That way, users can pre-load the libraries that will be loaded anyway. > > > > Isn't that already available using dump-emacs-portable? Or am I > > missing something? > > (1) It does not work interactively. Doesn't M-: work? > (2) Even making it work non-interactively is not necessarily trivial. > See https://archive.casouri.cat/note/2020/painless-transition-to-portable-dumper/index.html These are bugs we still need to find and fix. But adding arbitrary Lisp packages to loadup.el is also likely to cause bugs, since dumping Emacs is a tricky business in any case.