From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 17:01:02 +0200 Message-ID: <83pm08o24x.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83wmuowwp3.fsf@gnu.org> <8334xcwank.fsf@gnu.org> <320999cc-6c83-2315-0044-cc0403400af3@gutov.dev> <9ab5d2bd-a648-cae0-a4a7-ae86be10af0f@gutov.dev> <87r0kuqxbf.fsf@gmail.com> <54e115a2-fc36-3056-a030-0dbf32416ddb@gutov.dev> <43f290b0-4119-597b-c89a-0fb4c7db1665@gutov.dev> <87bkbtn79k.fsf@web.de> <87wmuhpxxv.fsf@gmail.com> <87v8a1lodp.fsf@web.de> <83msvdps4k.fsf@gnu.org> <83cyw8q35d.fsf@gnu.org> <877cmg4pxa.fsf@gmail.com> <83sf54o9ge.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19510"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: nicolas@petton.fr, michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 17 16:02:01 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r40M4-0004p6-Ik for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 16:02:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r40LN-0006hW-9A; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 10:01:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r40LG-0006h5-GT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 10:01:11 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r40LE-0000v5-JW; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 10:01:08 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=+YDDK7WDwtl2kDbJ9liBlUP/r0/1KRCAGmYJpdyrigo=; b=J6m/4VXIVWMf+s9a1Ya5 RpJIeiQryExHXgw8jcx/uRTP7wbMyvYhNEhcoZy4JSruGXAOU+cfBl9Dv2QBVJGit8DfjHMrVqEYn 362pGeX9SH2K2cN97sxlQgvOq/nFkWwaDQJAJnxYaoSW+1wgAxY2hR3hXnAax49X9oMOtgXMn809x yvBIKTJY1CN7Al7tlw233X6xboGhp/tdlOeDnekGxwGN3o/O4hPJhpt/s0uePkPjqBhQxAgzpBplN +Z3zJ3io5dz/9VLGC8MFP18sEml7FnYMwnZv26QwsXGgRAtHJDYoXzMdagCkaJa7Sk+fZwD/5GwrR wOt/L7svc7HxIw==; In-Reply-To: (message from =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= on Fri, 17 Nov 2023 13:14:11 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312872 Archived-At: > From: João Távora > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 13:14:11 +0000 > Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 12:23 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > But it still feels like some people are not > > > convinced that that documentation is essential at all (you seem to be > > > one of them, reading further). > > Show me the docs changes you think should be installed, and let's take > > it from there. Until then, this kind of hand-waving and vague > > accusations are not useful. > > You can't make this stuff up. Didn't you just write 30 minutes ago > > because we generally don't say such things > in our manuals, except in rare exceptional cases (which the > seq.el one isn't, IMNSHO) > > ?? Is this not crystal clear evidence that IYNSHO this type > of documentation for seq.el isn't needed? No, it states the facts as I know them. It doesn't mean I necessarily think we should keep doing that. > Are you sure _I'm_ the vague accuser?? Show me that I was wrong by submitting the docs you think should be added, and let's take it from there. > I hope that by sniping the rest of the message you at least > acknowledge that we _do_ say such things in our Elisp manual. No, it just means that I have nothing useful to say about that, and prefer to say nothing. > > In general, I suggest to be less "combative" in this and similar > > discussions. It doesn't help arriving to a consensus. But I digress. > > Indeed. And likewise. Yeah, right.