From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU Emacs is on Bazaar now. Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:08:42 +0200 Message-ID: <83oclhejpx.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d4206n80.fsf@canonical.com> <87637qhjqu.fsf@red-bean.com> <87fx6urat1.fsf@telefonica.net> <87oclig1qj.fsf@red-bean.com> <87bphir8s4.fsf@telefonica.net> <87zl52o82l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ws06plss.fsf@telefonica.net> <87y6kmo0w7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87oclipeuj.fsf@telefonica.net> <87637ppyhl.fsf@red-bean.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1262110093 28540 80.91.229.12 (29 Dec 2009 18:08:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:08:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, lekktu@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Karl Fogel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 29 19:08:04 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NPgUC-00017j-NT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:08:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49719 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NPgUD-0003T3-49 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:08:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NPgTa-00034N-6Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:07:22 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NPgTV-00032A-FP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:07:21 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=49786 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NPgTV-000325-BC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:07:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:40445) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NPgTU-0003bw-Tq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:07:17 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0KVF00500EA0SF00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:06:20 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.222.44]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0KVF00L2AEAIFAP0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:06:20 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <87637ppyhl.fsf@red-bean.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:118944 Archived-At: > From: Karl Fogel > Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 10:54:14 -0500 > Cc: =C3=93scar Fuentes , emacs-devel@gnu.org >=20 > Remember, during the transition, the point of > http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-en/BzrForEmacsDevs was to offer a > reliable, safe, and simple method for continuing to work. That way= , no > one would shoot themselves (or the project) in the foot while learn= ing > how to use Bazaar. This naturally involved compromises. >=20 > Soon, though, developers (like Kenichi Handa) will be more familiar= and > comfortable with Bazaar. Once that happens, they *will* start look= ing > for ways to get around annoyances -- such as the need to do two com= mits > with two log messages (!) even for simple typo changes. >=20 > This is inevitable; if we deny this reality, we simply make the doc= less > useful. As I wrote several weeks ago (and was pounced upon), I don't see why we need to spoon-feed experienced developers such as Handa-san. I se= e no need to wait until developers ``start looking for ways to get around'', and tell them how to do that only then. Describe the options (not all of them, just a few useful ones) together with their merits and demerits, and let each one make their own choices, like th= e grown-ups they are. The current ``need to know basis'' attitude of keeping information off the docs lest developers will be confused is almost unethical, pardon my French.