From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 13:15:22 +0300 Message-ID: <83o7yyur0l.fsf@gnu.org> References: <871qw31ois.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> <835yld93w7.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5t0yrn.fsf@gmail.com> <87r140yuof.fsf@gmail.com> <875yl9e7zm.fsf@gmail.com> <83czfh12kp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmjhghu2.fsf@localhost> <835yl910gp.fsf@gnu.org> <87wndndbhq.fsf@gmail.com> <83bkuzznws.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5mqmkh.fsf@localhost> <83y1y2utnd.fsf@gnu.org> <87r13up587.fsf@localhost> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13724"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: theophilusx@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 12 12:19:54 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0KhF-0003N7-Lo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 12:19:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58624 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0KhE-000328-Gs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 06:19:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54284) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0KdA-0001bn-H7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 06:15:40 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44372) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0KdA-0007rG-1f; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 06:15:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=jHnfRT05ut1jdMqXh+9jq5soSYoZ1dl6orng/vCbG9U=; b=o3x0UEwHJki3 XJTLpP9WYlEuDjeswV/cR2QeFzBVTwRTKvG2ha5q0aHtP+uLyBuA+cY6hYio0DxPJiAwtxF/nVeXM YEuJIqYpkf3H38NqNwqomjVHdlYaemDLTahmthCcgTpk3EtyRGn68b1W1sTvkV1+4pALNDja9zbky NNi9ef2bodCJbI+qqCxP8TyD7ew24C6wAjcT1JKoTKOTu4vwjdK230NjtA+PdcYastKvAZC2sAL5u z4l3E+nfNK7YP0A4YeMSxmyC6RpJujHlLcwHG05CcOFlv9HcOX34M0JpH0uqcLhP61tqA/01j32b2 ytFtNpwqWiPxsFJMrJ2dmg==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2137 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0Kd9-00047U-67; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 06:15:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87r13up587.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Sun, 12 Jun 2022 18:04:56 +0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291090 Archived-At: > From: Ihor Radchenko > Cc: theophilusx@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 18:04:56 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> So, now we have our manual written in Org mode and we never had reasons > >> to come back to texi. > > > > And I get to wait for 2 minutes for the build to finish each time > > org.org is touched. Right. > > This is not very polite. The change did not aim to make your life > harder. It is an expression of frustration I feel each time the build needs to rebuild the Org manual. I wrote it to contrast that frustration with what I perceived as satisfaction with this solution expressed in your description of the history of this. I really wonder how come no one on the Org list paid any attention to the 10-fold to 40-fold slowdown in the time it takes to build the manual, as result of that change. But that's water under the bridge. > You are free to open discussion in Org ML about turning back to texi > format, but it will, for example, make things harder for me and other > people who are not familiar with texinfo format. I am not sure if build > time justifies extra maintenance burden. I don't see any chance I will convince Org developers to go back to Texinfo at this point. > I just pushed several improvements to ox.el. They reduce manual > generation time 2x on my system (using main branch). Feel free to try it > on your side. AFAIU, the effect should be more noticeable on slower > systems. Thanks, I hope to see this soon in the Emacs repository. > It may also help if you try to profile org-make-manuals from > mk/org-fixup.el and share the results. If profiling can help, wouldn't it be simpler to invoke the same commands from an interactive Emacs session, then show the profile?