From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Merging feature/android Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2023 09:24:51 +0200 Message-ID: <83o7p22xq4.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87edq7ztks.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <87fsajtrrx.fsf@yahoo.com> <83o7p78ns8.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1obsamf.fsf@yahoo.com> <0100f288-fcc0-8b91-5f12-18bf22969e50@cs.ucla.edu> <87ttyzs8q1.fsf@yahoo.com> <253e9494-6f78-89b7-8f5f-9c2e8461d95a@cs.ucla.edu> <878rgaspvs.fsf@yahoo.com> <86bkl6z1sc.fsf@aarsen.me> <87mt4qqi2o.fsf@yahoo.com> <83a60q84eo.fsf@gnu.org> <87a60qqb0c.fsf@yahoo.com> <83y1oa6k71.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfehpfcv.fsf@yahoo.com> <83a60o7mif.fsf@gnu.org> <87jzzspvcl.fsf@yahoo.com> <83ttyw65v5.fsf@gnu.org> <4B15D851-5638-48E6-A789-3017A1CBA971@yahoo.com> <8584ff7c-f83e-18b1-1300-dfa0788e4443@cs.ucla.edu> <87v8jbohk4.fsf@yahoo.com> <831qlz5pas.fsf@gnu.org> <87356en2w7.fsf@yahoo.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30986"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, arsen@aarsen.me, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 09 08:25:27 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1paAeU-0007tM-T6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Mar 2023 08:25:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1paAdz-00036K-Sc; Thu, 09 Mar 2023 02:24:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1paAdx-00035s-95 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Mar 2023 02:24:53 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1paAdw-0000YY-3x; Thu, 09 Mar 2023 02:24:52 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=YGWAgAJLKVDVHFqulm8PvT7xBgLJk3FjtG3ppctNJCw=; b=ECOjHYy7KDZK WK8shfW4JJKcIVZmi5aszOx/hK59+czV4No5vq627hIstqFuz/oV6clauX7EK/Z7hp9E/aqsWnHAp rKOUt8Hq6FPMleL0tY8q8InGyNTfudmjszYrJcUHeqqxsUQpEUzFog2H2ElH9jvbFznuF06hKLVU2 y874K2fkW4Xf55JoBGJ9xeuLlWrZTyL6SMIHbBuco7Gh9x4ZkqWrlWiqz0vZepaMTh3O8gj751xQv QClAqsvKEyIdp2+um4o/Q+T0eVGODgNkOOWLjI+ZyvZGxIXF1KfDzHrrEm3pMx7W42JO6FEh6J+lF 8Vm3Ct5ZzDrKaurP8gk2SA==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1paAdv-0002V0-DX; Thu, 09 Mar 2023 02:24:51 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87356en2w7.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Thu, 09 Mar 2023 09:12:56 +0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:304164 Archived-At: > From: Po Lu > Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, arsen@aarsen.me, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2023 09:12:56 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Only because you keep insisting that it's needed. My preference is to > > leave it "default ON" on all platforms. I see no reason why having > > Android users see the error and re-run configure with ifavailable (if > > needed) would be such a catastrophe. We _want_ Emacs to be capable of > > loading modules, and we want the user to be aware if the build cannot > > do that, so that the user could take the remedial action if possible. > > Because (on many systems, not just on Android) a working version of GCC > is not a small dependency required for networking, or some > easy-to-install image library, but a massive piece of software that is > difficult to install and keep working. Emacs currently also doesn't > work on systems where the linker refuses to link with `dlopen' by > default: > > % ./configure CC='gcc445' > ... > checking for dlopen... no > configure: error: Dynamic modules are not supported on your system > > and requires tweaking: > > % ./configure CC='gcc445' LDFLAGS='-Wl,-insecure -lc' > > dynamic modules, being a niche feature (count the number of packages on > ELPA and NonGNU that provide them), do not deserve such special > treatment, so configure should not insist that they be available, at > least on any system where GCC is not typically available. I disagree with your conclusion, and I still think we should complain noisily if modules cannot be supported. I wish you stopped arguing and just did what I asked long ago, even if you disagree. This minor issue is not worth all the energy and bandwidth we wasted already, let alone what we are going to waste if the argument keeps going on. Please. > How is this change any different from us bumping the minimum required > versions of GTK+ or ImageMagick in the past? I explained how it's different, more then once: support for modules is very important for Emacs, so omitting is silently is not TRT.