From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: contributing to Emacs Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 19:14:55 +0300 Message-ID: <83o7la5cw0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83v8fnslfz.fsf@gnu.org> <8423a35750d8d8e0437c7708f6b4d0bbdfdb7fe0.camel@yandex.ru> <6981052a75913ea435ae2adaccdaa1c66252a6df.camel@yandex.ru> <6a22f3608f37e238ffbd20d6dead86d3aa76d01e.camel@yandex.ru> <96766e99bf2618cc4290498933c6e32bc2a0f98a.camel@yandex.ru> <83o7ldpcs8.fsf@gnu.org> <3c64fe534fee45ff75c9e2c3cece8e2ee146091e.camel@yandex.ru> <87bkhdnl94.fsf@posteo.net> <183ae6c17b4d07701e76003dc72c25d8d2705611.camel@yandex.ru> <87pm5t7yu4.fsf@yahoo.com> <339b006829e123a3f6eeaffbd66f557ea837fdcd.camel@yandex.ru> <87y1kgdax7.fsf@web.de> <83o7lc91kh.fsf@gnu.org> <87leggd2cu.fsf@web.de> <83ilbk8u1k.fsf@gnu.org> <448f75fb368e4ae61dd8bd7899047602a806228a.camel@yandex.ru> <83h6r48a02.fsf@gnu.org> <83mt0v70d3.fsf@gnu.org> <03bef840fc28d46a2ffbf9c94c18a3cbf96de08f.camel@yandex.ru> <83cz1q75do.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33259"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: dsmasterson@gmail.com, arne_bab@web.de, ams@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, philipk@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Konstantin Kharlamov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 20 18:15:52 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qBe1G-0008O9-Vb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:15:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBe0Q-0006XS-T5; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 12:14:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBe0P-0006X7-85 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 12:14:57 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBe0M-00035P-5y; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 12:14:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=M5iL+lj/7e/d9KIYYj7Kf1m9xhR9oNHhFjS6xfK1U/k=; b=sX3VTdsppeCtsebGty1H ab9fa0mbUMO0PdOmnionWIQFfZysGV2p/nALbXjFERMUkiXkz7tlJvWgV6Z3bibqtctcOH60VWrL6 CdirNvoxfy6w+q9WWGnQAn4s+HdY1adJt5g8w25xKrMhSubpodfCGIIe/p+DD0d5RBl7oITgFxDi3 nJb/G6jmzTNpIo93dPkGsDQo+0hPs2GGEQO0xfpCOBmtT4KY2IGmQ52A+4tt4dOf8U6laj1O9zpC7 WeGj4UXNu+Kv6H7P7a/LVOAUgXJwcY8EqLNPIoUHVBEqZ8tycCcgN+tGhFipObuEIdYhMuxpdYw3G hBR6elv4fpGT9A==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBe0I-0003wx-BZ; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 12:14:51 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Konstantin Kharlamov on Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:45:03 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:307090 Archived-At: > From: Konstantin Kharlamov > Cc: dsmasterson@gmail.com, arne_bab@web.de, ams@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, > philipk@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:45:03 +0300 > > > I already said I didn't think this was a good idea, and explained why > > I thought so. > > You said you afraid some information will be lost. I explained that it won't. > You didn't provide any counter-arguments, so I kind of hoped it is clear at this > point that it will only bring benefit. If you are referring to something I > didn't answer, please point that out, because to my knowledge I replied to > everything. If you carefully re-read what I wrote about those suggestions, you will see that the issue is exhausted from my POV. > > In any case, that section hardly has any bearing on the main issue at > > hand: how to make it easier for people to contribute.  I explained > > that as well. > > That is because the large issue consists of many small ones! You cannot solve a complex problem by explaining it. So adding more and more explanations will not get us closer to the goal. Especially since almost no one reads that, especially not the new contributors. They instead learn it on the job, one bit at a time. And there's nothing wrong with that, from where I stand. > The only single > "big move" that is theoretically possible is just move Emacs to a Gitlab > instance, which will remove necessity to care of any docs because finding a > developer who doesn't know how git-forges work is unlikely. But I *do not* > suggest doing that because I know many long-timers would not want that. So > instead I am trying to bite at different pieces that could be improved without > affecting existing workflow. This docs discussion is just one small piece. We considered Gitlab, and also a couple of other alternatives. They all had problems that needed to be solved first, and no one stepped forward or succeeded to do that. You can find all this in the archives, including our minimum requirements to any such workflow/framework.