From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org schemas we talked to be non-free, was: [ELPA] New package: repology.el Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 17:13:38 +0200 Message-ID: <83mtwx2gnx.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83zh0y2jtu.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37240"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, ulm@gentoo.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, arthur.miller@live.com, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 25 16:15:05 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l43a2-0009Un-F1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 16:15:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57848 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l43a1-0004DC-HQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 10:15:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49150) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l43Z8-0003NC-Es for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 10:14:06 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52128) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l43Z7-0007cp-Aj; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 10:14:05 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1842 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1l43Yb-0000ch-57; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 10:13:34 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Jean Louis on Sun, 24 Jan 2021 23:47:42 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:263387 Archived-At: > Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2021 23:47:42 +0300 > From: Jean Louis > Cc: ulm@gentoo.org, rms@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, ams@gnu.org, > arthur.miller@live.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > I understand it. If that schema defines a document format and document > format cannot be modified then I do not see how software that handles > that document format is free. Programmers should be able to improve > the format or make it incompatible as it is part of the overall > document creation. It is not software but data used by software. Data > should be modifiable in my opinion. Modifications of a schema produce a file that can no longer be used with the same collection of documents and protocols. So such modifications are not useful. I very much hope that we as a movement will not insist on abstract "freedom" to make useless modifications just for the sake of modifications. To me, Free Software movement is a pragmatic movement that picks up its fights wisely, and this particular fight isn't, it's a Quixotic fight for a useless goal. > Let us say enriched mode in Emacs, if it would not be modifiable by > programmers who fork Emacs, I am not sure if Emacs would be free > software. Enriched mode doesn't have or use a schema, so this example is inapplicable. > How about Org mode itself? If its format would not be modifiable, then > we would not have software similar on Org or based on Org mode, such > as: > > OneModel — an Alternative to emacs org-mode > https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=16/04/23/0149257 Is OneModel compatible with Org? If it is, then it's an extension, not some modification. If it isn't compatible, then it's simply a different schema, unrelated to Org. > I just hope that Libreoffice is not using non-free OASIS schemas. They would be silly if they didn't.