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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org>
Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca,
	rms@gnu.org, rudalics@gmx.at
Subject: Re: cc-mode fontification feels random
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 22:04:09 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83mtrydfme.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <179f21d7780.2816.cc5b3318d7e9908e2c46732289705cb0@dancol.org> (message from Daniel Colascione on Wed, 09 Jun 2021 11:51:28 -0700)

> From: Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org>
> CC: <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, <rudalics@gmx.at>, <emacs-devel@gnu.org>, <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 11:51:28 -0700
> 
> > That's why we had (and still have) font-lock-maximum-decoration: so
> > that users could control the tradeoff.  Unfortunately, support for
> > that variable is all but absent nowadays, because of the widespread
> > mistaken assumption that font-lock is fast enough in all modes.
> 
> It should be fast enough for all modes. This isn't 1985. Computers in 
> general are *several orders* of magnitude faster than needed to do real 
> time syntax highlighting in general.

I'm all for speeding it up, but the fact is, it isn't always fast
enough, especially in large files/buffers.  As long as it isn't fast
enough, that variable has its place, IMO.

> Other editors don't seem to struggle.  

Do you happen to know why?  Maybe we could use some of the ideas.

> Tree sitter is very fast.

But we don't use it.  I hope we will some day.

> If regular editing is stuttering because of 
> fontification, we have bad data structures, algorithms, or architectures 
> --- that is, bugs. And we shouldn't add user options to paper over bugs. 

I disagree.  These aren't "normal" bugs, these are design bugs, or
maybe even limitations of the methods we use for fontifications.  Such
issues sometimes take time to replace with better ones, and in the
meantime we need to provide reasonably responsive editing.

> That's ridiculous. I can't believe we really want to propose a "please make 
> syntax highlighting wrong" user option.

Not "wrong", just "less granular".  There's no single "right" here.



  reply	other threads:[~2021-06-09 19:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 274+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-06-04  3:16 cc-mode fontification feels random Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04  6:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04  7:10   ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-06-04 10:08     ` João Távora
2021-06-04 10:39       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 10:59         ` Philipp
2021-06-04 11:05           ` João Távora
2021-06-04 11:22             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 12:44               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-06-04 13:46               ` João Távora
2021-06-04 14:11                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 11:18           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 16:43       ` Jim Porter
     [not found]         ` <83k0n9l9pv.fsf@gnu.org>
2021-06-04 19:41           ` Jim Porter
2021-06-04 19:53             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 20:05               ` Jim Porter
2021-06-04 20:11                 ` Joost Kremers
2021-06-05  6:51                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 10:14                     ` Joost Kremers
2021-06-05 11:31                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 12:12                         ` Joost Kremers
2021-06-05 13:23                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-05 17:08                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-05 17:31                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-05 17:32                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 18:46                     ` João Távora
2021-06-05  6:41                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05  9:32                   ` João Távora
2021-06-05  9:59                     ` Ergus
2021-06-05 11:29                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 11:55                         ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-05 12:27                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 17:59                             ` Jim Porter
2021-06-05 18:56                               ` Daniel Martín
2021-06-05 12:43                         ` Ergus
2021-06-05 13:59                       ` Remote GUI Emacs really works (was: cc-mode fontification feels random) Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-05 11:25                     ` cc-mode fontification feels random Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05  9:46                   ` Ergus
2021-06-05 11:27                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 20:14               ` Yuri Khan
2021-06-04 10:25     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 10:05   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04 10:22     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 10:34       ` João Távora
2021-06-04 10:43         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 18:25         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-04 18:36           ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04 19:11             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 19:16               ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04 19:26                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 19:33                   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04 19:51                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05  0:29             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-05  6:32               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 19:07           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 19:26             ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-04 19:32               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 10:41       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 10:42 ` Ergus
2021-06-04 15:54 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-04 18:30   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-06 11:37     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-06 11:57       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-06 12:27         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-06 12:44           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-06 14:19             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-06 17:06               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-06 17:44       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-06 18:00         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-06 18:18           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-06 18:33             ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-06 20:24               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-06 20:27                 ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-06 20:38                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-06 19:03             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-06 20:28               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-07  7:35                 ` martin rudalics
2021-06-07 13:20                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-07 13:37                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08  0:06                       ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-08 15:16                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-07 15:58                     ` martin rudalics
2021-06-08  4:01                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-06-08 15:29                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-08 15:52                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08 16:36                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-08 18:11                             ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-08 18:25                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08 18:28                                 ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-08 18:54                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-09 18:22                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-09 18:36                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-09 18:51                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-09 19:04                                       ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2021-06-09 20:07                                       ` chad
2021-06-10  6:43                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-09 20:17                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-06-09 21:03                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-10  2:21                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-10  6:55                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10  6:58                                           ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-10  7:19                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10  6:39                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 16:46                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-10 17:01                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 17:07                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-10 17:22                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 17:33                                                 ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-10 17:39                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 17:40                                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-10 17:44                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 16:11                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-11 17:53                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 18:02                                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-11 18:22                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 18:28                                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-11 19:12                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-11 19:23                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 18:47                                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-11 19:32                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 19:46                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-11 19:50                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 18:42                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-11 19:31                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 19:57                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-11 23:25                                                             ` Ergus
2021-06-11 23:52                                                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-12  1:08                                                                 ` Ergus
2021-06-12  3:20                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 11:07                                                                     ` Ergus
2021-06-12  6:58                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 11:01                                                                     ` Ergus
2021-06-12 11:25                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 15:04                                                                         ` Ergus
2021-06-12 15:16                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 15:23                                                                             ` Ergus
2021-06-12 15:35                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 14:00                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 14:20                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 14:33                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 15:06                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 15:46                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12  6:50                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12  5:20                                                               ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-06-12 13:40                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 15:56                                                                   ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-06-12 16:59                                                                     ` Ergus
2021-06-12 17:51                                                                       ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-06-12 17:25                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 17:53                                                                       ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-06-12 17:54                                                                       ` Ergus
2021-06-12 18:02                                                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-12 18:39                                                                         ` Ergus
2021-06-12  6:38                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 13:44                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 14:14                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 20:06                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-12  6:44                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12  8:00                                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-12  8:08                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12  9:31                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-11 19:48                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 18:34                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-10 17:26                                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-10 17:39                                               ` andrés ramírez
2021-06-10 21:06                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-11  6:14                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 15:16                                       ` Ergus
2021-06-10 15:34                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-06-10 19:06                                           ` Ergus
2021-06-10 19:28                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 21:56                                               ` Ergus
2021-06-10 15:59                                         ` Jim Porter
2021-06-10 21:02                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-11 20:21                                           ` Ergus
2021-06-11 20:27                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-11 20:37                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-11 20:52                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12  6:46                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12  8:03                                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-12  8:13                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-12 13:51                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12  8:47                                                   ` Daniele Nicolodi
2021-06-12  8:57                                                     ` tomas
2021-06-12 14:04                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-09 19:05                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-09 19:11                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-09 20:20                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-09 20:36                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-10  7:01                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-10  7:21                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10  2:21                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2021-06-19  9:25                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-19 15:24                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-09 14:06                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2021-07-11 18:12                                               ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-15 18:13                                                 ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-15 22:43                                                   ` Tree Sitter (was Re: cc-mode fontification feels random) Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-19 23:49                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-20 14:53                                                       ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-21  0:04                                                         ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-21  1:28                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-07-21 14:43                                                             ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-21 16:21                                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2021-07-21 19:15                                                                 ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-22  1:16                                                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-07-22 13:18                                                                     ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-22 13:49                                                                     ` Yuan Fu
2021-07-24 20:05                                                                     ` [SPAM UNSURE] " Stephen Leake
2021-07-25  0:41                                                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2021-07-26  4:24                                                                         ` [SPAM UNSURE] " Stephen Leake
2021-07-25 18:01                                                                       ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-22 14:00                                                           ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-24  1:17                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-07-25 16:13                                                               ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-25 19:52                                                                 ` Ada (was Re: Tree Sitter) Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-26  5:05                                                                   ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-26  9:42                                                                     ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-26 14:01                                                                       ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-26 13:45                                                                     ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-27  0:26                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-07-27 12:38                                                                     ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-07-26  2:23                                                                 ` Tree Sitter (was Re: cc-mode fontification feels random) John Yates
2021-07-24 19:59                                                             ` Stephen Leake
2021-07-24 21:21                                                               ` OFF-TOPIC: Ada availability (was: Tree Sitter) Óscar Fuentes
2021-07-25  7:31                                                                 ` tomas
2021-06-08 18:11                             ` cc-mode fontification feels random Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08 21:25                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-09  3:39                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-06-09  8:34                         ` martin rudalics
2021-06-09 13:14                           ` `open-paren-in-column-0-is-defun-start` (was: cc-mode fontification feels random) Stefan Monnier
2021-06-09 15:15                             ` Yuri Khan
2021-06-09 15:16                               ` Yuri Khan
2021-06-12 17:29                           ` cc-mode fontification feels random João Távora
2021-06-13  8:50                             ` martin rudalics
2021-06-13  9:05                               ` João Távora
2021-06-13  9:39                                 ` martin rudalics
2021-06-13 10:06                                   ` João Távora
2021-06-13 14:52                                     ` martin rudalics
2021-06-13 15:25                                       ` João Távora
2021-06-14  8:29                                         ` martin rudalics
2021-06-14  8:40                                           ` João Távora
2021-06-14  9:00                                             ` martin rudalics
2021-06-14  9:14                                               ` João Távora
2021-06-14 11:28                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-14 14:39                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-15 22:38                                             ` Ergus
2021-06-07 12:08                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08 15:22                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-08 15:46                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-05 20:25   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-06-06 11:53     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-06-06 17:08       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-30 18:50 ` [PATCH] " Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-30 19:03   ` Perry E. Metzger
2021-08-30 19:18     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-30 19:25   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-30 19:28     ` Daniel Colascione
2021-08-30 19:37       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-30 20:11       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-31 10:54         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 13:23           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-31 16:02             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 16:21               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-31 16:46                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 17:02                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-31 18:56           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-31 21:17             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 21:47               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-22 20:13               ` [Committed PATCH] " Alan Mackenzie
2021-10-24 20:18                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 13:18         ` [PATCH] " Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-30 20:03     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-08-31 11:53       ` Eli Zaretskii

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