From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Entering emojis Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2021 19:27:30 +0300 Message-ID: <83mtmtru6l.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87cznths5j.fsf@gnus.org> <83tuh4zfg5.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26gfobr.fsf@gnus.org> <87tuh4f1ie.fsf@gnus.org> <0353A9DA-0041-4D71-8E1B-09FB07A5FD0F@acm.org> <87ilxialzw.fsf@igel.home> <831r46wj6r.fsf@gnu.org> <83fssmuxui.fsf@gnu.org> <83bl3aux6y.fsf@gnu.org> <835ytiuvm9.fsf@gnu.org> <834k91vgie.fsf@gnu.org> <8ff3b131c5fa370d9eaf@heytings.org> <83mtmttsxz.fsf@gnu.org> <8ff3b131c56b7b2d1d6f@heytings.org> <83bl39tqnl.fsf@gnu.org> <8ff3b131c531f5254799@heytings.org> <83a6ittp5r.fsf@gnu.org> <8ff3b131c53b9df49236@heytings.org> <834k91th5c.fsf@gnu.org> <8ff3b131c5fe09753ca0@heytings.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17452"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: mattiase@acm.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, raman@google.com To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 28 18:38:54 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mg8QY-0004PD-OC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 18:38:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37304 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mg8QX-0005EC-JE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:38:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58794) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mg8FZ-0005PT-Kh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:27:33 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55988) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mg8FX-0003Aq-73; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:27:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=9/62CsAhMrki9ER7t4Mv7HRfPRAs9GVrJ4CXBaH53U8=; b=E5okfnaKYR84 MCbWxpGLPRHTxCtReMNNnIH5Tn5mbr3x6KVGjd0FZ1dkZHHj8Dd+yb8x+ic4UBAQq43ms/e/CtZCs gfWQ6aonOwHgjQdv97pWFyunzq8ooljxe0mZCVwxwc0gwpSI7tasDnQaySZOzqIaQE2Sxn+nJluLI DaVCLN0bkxACQvZcqbqLELFoONat1pbwEg07f9iSLm0Ndab9VBk+/Qxvg8Hd1NPfdnQFPxWvOrLUs BEP7TuSILTtgkQ7s1DbLNDrrnaoO/iWf0HPFLGXo85vyrIjD/hrvRWQmYbQrxZEmodC8qFSd7qk1Y b+Q620mia5Y56Nt+Gvnvew==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4816 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mg8FW-0003ZT-BA; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 12:27:31 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8ff3b131c5fe09753ca0@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Thu, 28 Oct 2021 13:55:21 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:278126 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2021 13:55:21 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: mattiase@acm.org, raman@google.com, schwab@linux-m68k.org, > stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > Like I said: the new way of formatting this script is not yet supported > > widely enough. > > Okay, so IIUC, Unicode has decided to do something that goes against the > existing practice. Looks like that, yes. > Given the limited available manpower in that narrow subfield, I'm > not quite sure it was the best thing to do. Using a font with > predefined ligatures is much easier to enter text. I think the issue is not whether the font delivers ligatures or not, the issue is whether the font recognizes the sequences which should produce either ligatures or series of glyphs with offsets, when the formatting controls are in the sequence. It sounds like the existing fonts don't recognize such sequences for what they are supposed to produce. > > AFAIU, U+13431 is the joiner to be used in that case. > > But it's not a joiner, it's a non-joiner. The logic is the opposite of > what Unicode decided to do: known quadrats are automatically recognized > and combined appropriately when their individual characters appear one > after the other in a string. It's only when you want to avoid this that > you have to add a non-joiner. That's not what the Unicode Standard says. > > And you didn't answer my question: does LibreOffice with the Aegyptus > > font display those sequences correctly? > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by "those sequences". The sequences in the > patch are rendred correctly. The sequences in figure 11-2 of section 11.4 > of the Unicode standard are not rendered correctly. See the attached two > pictures. OK, thanks. So I think we should indeed install you patch, and add a comment that if and when the fonts learn to support these formatting controls, we should go back to the version with the controls. Because etc/HELLO is supposed to demonstrate our advanced text shaping and display capabilities, not just that we can find suitable fonts for scripts. WDYT?