From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Fixing package-initialize, adding early init file Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 13:22:37 +0300 Message-ID: <83lgkx953m.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d16exyk5.fsf@udel.edu> <20170925231503.3tbg52ugrloxm4zb@logos.localdomain> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1506680912 10658 195.159.176.226 (29 Sep 2017 10:28:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:28:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jwiegley@gmail.com, radon.neon@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Mark Oteiza Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 29 12:28:26 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dxsWq-0001by-Ie for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 12:28:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34545 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dxsWs-00033w-T2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 06:28:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41588) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dxsRl-0007if-3U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 06:23:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dxsRg-0006CJ-OS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 06:23:04 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:35780) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dxsRg-0006CB-K9; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 06:23:00 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1125 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dxsRf-0008Ja-0S; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 06:23:00 -0400 In-reply-to: <20170925231503.3tbg52ugrloxm4zb@logos.localdomain> (message from Mark Oteiza on Mon, 25 Sep 2017 19:15:03 -0400) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:218891 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 19:15:03 -0400 > From: Mark Oteiza > Cc: jwiegley@gmail.com, Stefan Monnier , > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > On 25/09/17 at 10:16pm, Radon Rosborough wrote: > > > I haven't seen one place where the problem_s_ involved have been > > > clearly articulated > > > > Unless by "problems involved" you meant more generally, for all the > > different proposals? That is exactly what [2] was intended to cover; > > could you clarify what exactly you would like articulated that hasn't > > been already? > > I meant more explicitly--each of these use cases should be documented > with examples. While the manual in its current state does explain > things, it can be better. It definitely can, but that's a separate issue, I think. And we cannot finalize the documentation before we finalize the code. > > Could you clarify what you mean by this? This patch has the effect > > that users can put package configuration right into their init-file, > > or use Custom to achieve the same, without having to know anything > > about the package system. > > At the cost of users who customize package.el and don't need another > init file. Do those users have a "fire escape"? If they don't, I agree we should provide one. Otherwise, I expect such users to be knowledgeable enough to work around these changes with minimal hassle.