From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: random doesn't feel very random Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:41:26 +0300 Message-ID: <83k3wfqtyx.fsf@gnu.org> References: <876288yh72.fsf@kanis.fr> <87wr0livd4.fsf@Rainer.invalid> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1346406094 9041 80.91.229.3 (31 Aug 2012 09:41:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:41:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stromeko@nexgo.de, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 31 11:41:35 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1T7NjL-0001bP-50 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:41:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56430 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T7NjI-0006W0-Rm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 05:41:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41698) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T7NjG-0006Vo-LC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 05:41:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T7NjF-0002RF-CL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 05:41:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:54484) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T7NjF-0002R4-3m; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 05:41:29 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0M9M00L005FGIX00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:41:27 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0M9M00L2D5L2IU10@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:41:27 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-Received-From: 80.179.55.175 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:152910 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:48:47 -0400 > Cc: Achim Gratz , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > It is a feature that, if you don't call (random t), `random' returns > > a predictable sequence. That is good for debugging. > > I wonder how often this has been useful. ??? A pseudo-random sequence is always deterministic, that's what the "pseudo" part is about. I'm sure you already know that. > Since most/any package that uses `random' will want the sequence to > be unpredictable ??? A pseudo-random sequence looks and feels as an unpredictable one. Moreover, you cannot have a non-predictable sequence out of a PRNG at all. I'm sure you already know that. > many packages call (random t) at various times Those packages have a bug that needs to be fixed.