From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why change the advertised bindings of Isearch commands? Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:16:02 +0200 Message-ID: <83k2p3sq71.fsf@gnu.org> References: Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1448619414 16041 80.91.229.3 (27 Nov 2015 10:16:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 10:16:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@linkov.net To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 27 11:16:36 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1a2G4y-0002F2-8s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 11:16:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55678 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2G50-0001On-OL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 05:16:38 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36825) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2G4w-0001Ll-33 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 05:16:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2G4r-0001Lk-TN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 05:16:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:37111) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a2G4r-0001LS-Lg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 05:16:29 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NYG00E00XIOV300@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:16:16 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NYG00ED2XV3OPB0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:16:16 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.166 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:195365 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 01:33:10 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: juri@linkov.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > > 1. C-h c M-e - M-e runs the command forward-sentence > > > > 2. C-h c M-c - M-c runs the command capitalize-word > > > > 3. C-h c M-r - M-r runs the command move-to-window-line-top-bottom > > > > > > > > IOW, those are keys that are more useful to exit Isearch and do > > > > what they do normally, thus advertising the new bindings will help > > > > to get rid of old bindings in later releases. > > > > > > I disagree that we should remove those keys from the realm of > > > Isearch just because they have global bindings. There are many, > > > many keys that you can use to exit Isearch. And different users > > > use different such keys to exit. And different users care to > > > have different keys exit and act immediately. > > > > The issue is not how to exit Isearch. The issue is how to go > > forward one sentence or capitalize a word while in Isearch. > > Read what I said, please. No one said that the "issue" is > "how to exit". It's about changing the default behavior to > make these keys "exit and act immediately". Read what _I_ said, please. I was describing the issue Jury alluded to. > Using M-c to exit and capitalize means removing it as a key > that does something useful _in_ Isearch. And evidently, the desire to remove it means we think its binding outside Isearch is more useful. > And the particular thing M-c does now, which we would > be losing it for, is a common Isearch action: toggle > case-fold. Likewise for the other keys. You have an alternative for that. > > What you are saying is that a user who spots a word to be > > capitalized during Isearch needs to do at least 2 things: > > exit Isearch with some key, then type M-c. > > Exactly as it has always been: `RET M-c'. The intent of the advertised bindings is to change that at some future point. > And not "at least 2 things". Exactly 2 things: exit & act. No, it's "at least 2 things". Because depending on how you exit Isearch you may need to move point first. > So far, no reason for this change in defaults (for 3 keys) > was even given. AFAIK, it ain't broke; no need to fix it. That's a different issue. You asked why the advertised bindings were changed; you now have the answer, I hope. > As I said, "different users care to have different keys > exit and act immediately". There are facilities to tailor the commands that exit Isearch, if the user doesn't like the defaults. > But let's hear some arguments in favor of the changes, please. That's a separate discussion.