From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: character sets as they relate to =?utf-8?B?w6LigqzFk1Jhd8Oi?= =?utf-8?B?4oKs?= string literals for elisp Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2021 15:29:14 +0300 Message-ID: <83k0iq2v6t.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4209edd83cfee7c84b2d75ebfcd38784fa21b23c.camel@crossproduct.net> <87v92ft9z6.fsf@db48x.net> <87o885tyle.fsf@db48x.net> <83k0it6lu5.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0isu7hz.fsf_-_@db48x.net> <87a6jotszy.fsf@db48x.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2440"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: db48x@db48x.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 06 14:31:53 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mY65R-0000Qf-Uu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 14:31:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47676 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mY65O-0001s1-F7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 08:31:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:32890) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mY637-0000Ro-7u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 08:29:29 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48422) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mY636-0007Z8-Mw; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 08:29:28 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1478 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mY62z-00048O-L3; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 08:29:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 5 Oct 2021 18:25:07 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276428 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 18:25:07 -0400 > Cc: eliz@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > So given my experience, I seriously doubt that volunteer translations > will reach a sufficiently high quality. At the very least, such an > effort should be organized and coordinated in a serious way on a > cross-project level. Perhaps GNU as a whole is big enough to do it as a > project. Maybe. But Emacs? I doubt it. We are currently talking about providing infrastructure for translation. As long as there's no such infrastructure, talking about translations and their quality is not useful. > Even multilingual messages would be a large effort, and in the case of > Emacs it is still not clear that it would be of much use. You would > immediately run into the brick-wall of English documentation, English > symbols, etc. etc. This has been discussed. The conclusions were that yes, if you want to be able to translate all of Emacs, it is probably impractical. But translating some of it should be doable. For example, echo-area messages in Emacs are not different from messages shown by text-mode programs, and those all have message catalogs translated into many languages. There's no reason enthusiasts shouldn't be able to do the same for Emacs. There's no reason to require or expect that every message will be translated, either Yes, translation of program messages is hard, and there are many bad translations. But it is not impossible to produce good translations. > That said, it sounds infinitely more doable than translating all > documentation, especially if we limit the scope to just some major > languages like Mandarin, Arabic and Spanish. No one seriously talks about translating all our documentation.