From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: sqlite3 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 12:18:22 +0200 Message-ID: <83k0g4hmz5.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87tufmjyai.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf0nr2b4.fsf@gnus.org> <87czlzjfhs.fsf@logand.com> <87pmpznmw4.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6h3jcfm.fsf@logand.com> <83lf0nj9w4.fsf@gnu.org> <8735mvj5u0.fsf@logand.com> <83fsqvj5jx.fsf@gnu.org> <83bl1ijb3q.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6936"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Madhu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 16 11:20:01 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mxnrj-0001WR-8l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 11:19:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42606 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mxnri-0002Xb-6b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 05:19:58 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40042) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mxnqS-0000qR-6t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 05:18:40 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=57856 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mxnqR-00044I-Q9; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 05:18:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ptmxJ4my4YJhRwhuYRqE8CeBHdPbOPulroHdDPWxoWY=; b=LDqUo7BgjsFP BKL4pj8VHGGqge0HpDkTNnHNENOnFZ/hSeu2lfMi17gcrHXKWGK5AsSfH4vxY0/rPgGcxNJPvi3ef PsXJ1o0U0J2fq1wVaAwIrcWA0skPPCvPlYnUAc8a7cfTgLKmvt/ozLF6KbFbImZNWsHADBRwEzF02 0pZunKtOcIJhbttsU2sSOLGGyV2KOYRzApwiMz/G5EmQHH4ouYvOX8pv4WZHemFKLNrmzlYdHGoHy uTwJyqnXOVrZpsnpgliv18MXNdo79tSE+WdsL/zmcQ5lj1iqMgTG/ObUypRA9cJcuvFdkpmLl366j /BXK/zTLpSfL9xV4jGmkoQ==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3303 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mxnqR-0004tp-FZ; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 05:18:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Madhu on Thu, 16 Dec 2021 15:18:30 +0530) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:282143 Archived-At: > From: Madhu > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 15:18:30 +0530 > > I didn't like situation with json. There is lisp/json.el (in elisp) and > there is src/json.c which is incompatible. In a world of ideal emacs > design (like a decade or two ago) I'd have been able to use the > interface which emacs provides and switch the implementation, (say if > the C version was not available). I think the idea was that no one will want to stay with json.el because its performance in important applications is abysmally inadequate. So investing efforts in making json.el compatible was deemed a waste of resources. > the network interface was another example. When Emacs is not compiled > without gnutls it was possible to use openssl s_client to get a network > interface and get the job done. (This has been obsoleted and requires > work before it can work) - and emacs user is now constrained to either > use gnutls or live without ssl, and this is a social-engineering not an > engineering decision. IMNSHO, the solution of using starttls external program for SSL connections was a terrible design (have an external program deliver signals to Emacs to communicate with it? really?), and I think its deprecation had this as one of its main reasons. The other reason was portability. Is availability of GnuTLS really a problem nowadays? I'd be surprised if it was a problem of any significance. > And this loss of freedom is implemented in a subtle way, (by the sort of > arguments which have been presented upthread which invoked gnutls) The basic argument in the sub-thread to which you responded was that we add dependencies to Emacs without a good reason, and that alternative solutions could be available to cover the same needs. I think the two examples you provided do not provide justification for that argument, as valid technical reasons led us to do what we did in both cases. If you perceive the results of those technical decisions as "loss of freedom", then I guess I'll have to disagree.