From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Turning on savehist-mode by default Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:26:24 +0200 Message-ID: <83jzpdj9qn.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87wmufm7r7.fsf@catern.com> <83h6kikkag.fsf@gnu.org> <8334w1l12c.fsf@gnu.org> <877cldxd71.fsf@yahoo.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1579"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, sbaugh@catern.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 17 13:27:27 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rEqEx-0000Bl-Ea for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 13:27:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEqEC-0005yJ-Vw; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 07:26:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEqEB-0005yA-Uy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 07:26:39 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rEqEB-0003N7-Hd; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 07:26:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=9zHNvU5rH82vxpok93hfnyk+rJV9txm72A5VkNYOmaQ=; b=rDdy4zInA7iM legcYUNJpVsqzC+5RhcVO6pMwqZ4hYOChukRE64q/LzH4kehWRAZP/cvPUrNZeiz5abocm8boIPTa ZVyKCfSmfCtNkNYE1WZlqc9vI+FZ1MSVVaLsCUSTmI9xxC7+c3Oq7uIgupvIoGOXV79XQ4uy0IBSE inph8dx2f1aSgsN9bEQ4YotrhSUpXGj2JsHbBWt25hjA4NxONXZ9MJLOvkE4iXV8Q6E7lLoukkp5r UmCjuXUCIhaiX9GFUmprQmNq/nr1aj1TN4bytYKQeIfs5jO2pCLuyU8gq3mG81du2N7ZEVkgQaXtM IF6+UENgFR9Za/0Fwhsl8g==; In-Reply-To: <877cldxd71.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Sun, 17 Dec 2023 19:48:02 +0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:313923 Archived-At: > From: Po Lu > Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, sbaugh@catern.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 19:48:02 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > And anyway, the problem already exists for those who turn on savehist > > in their customizations. If your usage patterns must avoid the > > overwriting you mention above, simply disable savehist in your init > > file, and Bob's your uncle. > > What about emacs -q, or if an error is signaled by savehist itself on > loading a malformed savehist file, or any other of the myriad of > circumstances that might cause Emacs to start without completely loading > the user initialization file? Turning off savehist-mode will fix all of those, no? You are basically describing something that can happen with any Emacs feature that is turned on by default. The solution is to turn them off when you want to avoid any of their effects. I routinely do that with blink-cursor-mode, global-eldoc-mode, and sometimes others, when they might get in the way. Or invoke "emacs -D". > > IOW, once again: personal preferences should NOT affect the defaults, > > nor are they too important when discussing those defaults. Unless the > > feature we want to turn on is buggy (in which case it must be fixed > > first), turning it on by default cannot possibly cause problems we > > don't already have. > > These aren't personal preferences. Running multiple sessions at once is > a feature which Emacs has long supported six ways from Sunday, and it > should continue to work by default. That's true, but using such multiple sessions (as opposed to a single session) is a personal preference. Resisting some change in the defaults because it adversely affects you personally is not a valid argument in my book, since defaults exist so users could tweak them. If it turns out a vast majority of users want savehist on by default, then you and myself will need to adapt -- and the way to adapt is very easy. > Hence we should resolve this problem with savehist in advance Sorry, I see no problem to solve here, except in the customizations of those who routinely run multiple sessions on the same system with the same HOME directory. > Thus with the aforementioned disadvantages on one hand, and all the toil > entailed on the other, is it any wonder that some people are averse to > this proposal? I'm open to all the opinions, I even asked to widen the audience from which we want to hear. But please don't expect that a small number of objections will necessarily prevent us from changing this default, as long as the reasons are of this nature (and not, say, some nasty problem that we are not thinking about right now).