From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 4e23cd0 4/5: * mail/rmail.el (rmail-show-message-1): When displaying a mime message, Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:27:36 +0300 Message-ID: <83iod5g3rr.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83mw2mn2no.fsf@gnu.org> <5521359D.2000509@yandex.ru> <83fv8emvgq.fsf@gnu.org> <55219139.8040507@yandex.ru> <83oan2l4pk.fsf@gnu.org> <5521B811.8070603@yandex.ru> <83d23hlmia.fsf@gnu.org> <20150407165131.GA2600@acm.fritz.box> <552486A4.2020803@yandex.ru> <20150408104847.GA4252@acm.fritz.box> <5525D2ED.7030703@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1428564476 19513 80.91.229.3 (9 Apr 2015 07:27:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 07:27:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 09 09:27:47 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yg6sJ-00024K-OZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Apr 2015 09:27:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56572 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yg6sJ-0005qN-4E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Apr 2015 03:27:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58802) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yg6s5-0005qC-Fg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Apr 2015 03:27:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yg6s1-0002wy-Et for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Apr 2015 03:27:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout26.012.net.il ([80.179.55.182]:40745) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yg6s1-0002wm-6Y; Thu, 09 Apr 2015 03:27:25 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout26.012.net.il by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NMJ0090037SNH00@mtaout26.012.net.il>; Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:28:41 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NMJ00A1T3FSOG00@mtaout26.012.net.il>; Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:28:41 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <5525D2ED.7030703@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.182 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:185185 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 04:16:29 +0300 > From: Dmitry Gutov > Cc: Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > On 04/08/2015 01:48 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > > I don't think think that's a valid comparison. In Emacs, you chose what > > level of complexity you work at, and you can learn it gradually. At a > > basic level, you can work Emacs with self-insert keys, arrow keys, and > > six or seven essential commands (C-g, C-x C-f, C-x C-s, C-x C-c, C-/, and > > one or two others). All these commands are "simple", in the sense they > > don't require you to specify obscure options, or anything like that. > > There's nothing interesting in Emacs on that level. There's no requirement for a tool to be "interesting", only to be useful, and let one do their job. > I certainly wouldn't have been as productive in it as I am now if I > stopped at it. There's no requirement to be more productive with Git beyond being able to push changes. > If you like, make an analogy to only working in a local Git repository, > and only in one branch. It's easy, even somewhat useful, but not what > most people do. No, Git isn't useful that way. Emacs, by contrast, is a useful text editor even if you use the most basic commands and cursor motion keys. > > In git, the complexity seems gratuitous - the user is exposed to the > > maximum level of detail possible rather than the minimum required to use > > it productively. > > "Maximum" is an exaggeration. Yes, it is. But you have to admit that Git requires a newbie to learn quite a lot -- new terminology, several new commands, and new procedures -- as a _prerequisite_ for being able to work in a single remote-tracking branch. And this is the core problem here.