From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 19:38:56 +0300 Message-ID: <83io654fhb.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83bncf3f9k.fsf@gnu.org> <5610E0BC.8090902@online.de> <83si5r106e.fsf@gnu.org> <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <871tcyexa9.fsf@fimbulvetr.bsc.es> <87612a7my2.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <561DC925.5050001@siege-engine.com> <561E32D2.4060501@yandex.ru> <83wpum3ozk.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9lpriqw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445099955 16642 80.91.229.3 (17 Oct 2015 16:39:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:39:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: johnw@newartisans.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 17 18:39:06 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnUVb-0005vi-HG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 18:39:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59063 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnUVa-0000o2-JG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:39:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58740) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnUVW-0000np-OP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:38:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnUVV-0000WD-RE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:38:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:37995) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnUVS-0000Ti-14; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:38:54 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NWD00F00I4A7W00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 19:38:51 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NWD00FMJI8R0560@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 19:38:51 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87h9lpriqw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.172 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191851 Archived-At: > From: David Kastrup > Cc: John Wiegley , emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:39:51 +0200 > > > Could it be that we don't understand the answer? > > > > I'd suggest to be very careful with such conclusions. They can only > > be valid when based on a detailed analysis of what is and isn't in > > CEDET, and on good knowledge and understanding of its design and > > implementation. > > If we wanted that, we would be using vi. Since vi isn't part of Emacs, this is irrelevant. > I'm old and experienced enough that I have the arrogance to claim that > something that is too hard for me to understand and/or use effectively > after putting in a reasonable amount of effort is not a generally useful > tool. I'm older, but until now there wasn't a single thing I wanted to understand and/or use effectively that I couldn't. I guess our idea of "reasonable amount" differs. > > My impression so far is that neither is particularly true, and my > > evidence is the number of times Eric and David Engster described some > > CEDET features that came as a surprise to us. > > Is that supposed to be a good thing? Not if we pretend to claim we know what CEDET is. > M-x grep RET works a lot smoother than M-! grep and the kind of > difference between the two are where Emacs shines, providing the editor > connection to technology. That's fine. IDE isn't for everyone.