From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
Cc: aurelien.aptel+emacs@gmail.com, p.stephani2@gmail.com,
dancol@dancol.org, tzz@lifelogs.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Dynamic modules: MODULE_HANDLE_SIGNALS etc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 17:46:20 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83io3rst2r.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5677DBC9.6030307@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Mon, 21 Dec 2015 03:00:25 -0800)
> Cc: aurelien.aptel+emacs@gmail.com, p.stephani2@gmail.com, dancol@dancol.org,
> tzz@lifelogs.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 03:00:25 -0800
>
> Then we either cannot use them in emacs-module.c,
>
> The lisp.h functions are no different from any other functions in this respect, so this is not a lisp.h problem. Stack overflow can occur with any function call, even functions defined within emacs-module.c itself.
This discussion started so long ago that we've lost the perspective,
and its main point is no longer in our sights. Let me remind that.
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I wrote in
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-11/msg02190.html:
> > . Why don't some functions use any of these macros, although they do
> > call Emacs functions? Examples include module_make_integer (calls
> > make_number), and module_make_user_ptr (calls make_user_ptr).
> >
> > . It seems like emacs-module.c assumes something about certain Emacs
> > functions, and based on that decides not to use these macros even
> > when calling those Emacs functions. For example, module_vec_get
> > calls ASIZE and AREF, but doesn't use the MODULE_HANDLE_* macros.
> > Evidently, it assumes that neither ASIZE nor AREF will ever signal
> > or throw. But isn't that a fragile assumption? The
> > implementation of internal Emacs functions is subject to change
> > without notice, and it would be a maintenance burden to have to
> > analyze upon each such change whether emacs-module.c needs some
> > augmentation.
And you replied in
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-11/msg02270.html:
> While that's true in general, I think some exceptions are OK. E.g., it's OK if emacs-module.c assumes that ASIZE is a simple access function or macro that doesn't throw signals. If we actually changed ASIZE to throw signals, there's a boatload of other code we'd need to change as well, and changing emacs-module.c wouldn't add much more to the maintenance burden.
Phillip's comments that you reverted were the logical consequence of
the apparent conclusion we drew from the above exchange: that it was
okay to assume these functions/macros cannot throw signals. Are you
now saying something different from what you said back then, i.e. that
we cannot rely on any function/macro from lisp.h to be signal-safe?
If so, we should add the necessary protection, in the form of calls to
MODULE_FUNCTION_BEGIN, to emacs-module.c functions that until now
relied on those lisp.h functions/macros to be safe.
> If emacs-module.c is incompatible with stack overflow detection, then we should put a FIXME comment in emacs-module.c saying so, as this is a recently-introduced bug that should get fixed. I did this just now.
> Perhaps someone with C++ expertise can chime in and say how C++ programs are expected to deal with stack overflow. Whatever mechanism is used, Emacs should be using it.
I have no idea how (or even if) C++ code can cope with stack overflow,
except by leaking all the objects that were alive at the point where
we detected stack overflow. AFAIK, proper C++ exception handling
requires non-trivial amounts of stack space that is not available when
there's stack overflow, where you have at most a single guard page to
work with.
> Come to think of it, there must be a better way for emacs-module.c to deal with C++ exceptions. The current approach is complex, confusing and error-prone. If emacs-module.c or the Emacs exception-handling mechanism really needs to be rewritten in C++ in order to catch C++ exceptions nicely, then somebody with C++ expertise should do that. (Optionally, of course; it should be OK to have a C-only Emacs that does not worry about C++ modules.) If done well, that should simplify the module interface considerably, for both C and C++.
I think there is some misunderstanding here, or some confusion,
perhaps mine: emacs-module.c is not supposed to deal with any C++
exceptions. C++ exceptions are supposed to be caught at the C++
level, below emacs-module.c, and handled there. An exception that
isn't caught will be recorded and will cause all the subsequent calls
to Lisp or to emacs-module.c function to fail, until we return back to
the Lisp interpreter that called the module function. But it will not
cause any C++-specific trouble.
What emacs-module.c does with non-local exits of _any_ kind is record
the first occurrence of such an exit, and silently return to the
caller, thus allowing the C++ objects on the stack to be destroyed
normally. IOW, it defers the exit until internal--module-call is
about to return. What problems do you see with that which cause you
to think it's error-prone, let alone dysfunctional?
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-12-21 15:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 177+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-11-25 18:39 Dynamic modules: MODULE_HANDLE_SIGNALS etc Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-25 18:50 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-11-25 19:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-26 21:29 ` Paul Eggert
2015-11-27 7:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-27 19:19 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-11-28 10:58 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-11-28 12:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-19 21:03 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-12-19 22:57 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-12-20 15:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-20 18:34 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-12-20 19:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-20 21:40 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-21 3:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-21 11:00 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-21 11:21 ` Yuri Khan
2015-12-21 11:34 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-21 15:46 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2015-12-21 18:15 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-21 18:28 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-21 19:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-21 20:19 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-12-21 19:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-22 4:09 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-22 4:38 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-22 4:48 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-22 4:52 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-22 6:09 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-22 6:14 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-22 6:33 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-22 6:35 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-22 6:44 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-22 6:53 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-22 16:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-22 16:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-22 17:26 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-12-22 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-22 16:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-22 16:39 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-22 17:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-22 23:28 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-23 16:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-23 16:20 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-12-23 16:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-23 17:09 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-23 17:18 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-24 2:51 ` Paul Eggert
2015-12-24 3:11 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-24 16:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-24 17:04 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-24 17:17 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 14:27 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 15:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 15:49 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 16:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 16:50 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 17:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 16:31 ` Paul Eggert
2016-01-03 16:48 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 18:07 ` Paul Eggert
2016-01-03 18:22 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 21:02 ` Paul Eggert
2016-01-03 21:12 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 23:11 ` Paul Eggert
2016-01-03 23:22 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 23:29 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-04 1:05 ` Paul Eggert
2016-01-04 1:07 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 15:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-04 15:40 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 16:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-04 20:32 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-04 20:34 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 20:35 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 22:06 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-04 15:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-04 15:28 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 16:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 17:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 17:22 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 17:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 17:49 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 18:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 18:24 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 18:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 19:04 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 19:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 19:26 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 19:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 19:47 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 19:49 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 20:14 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 3:17 ` Richard Stallman
2016-01-03 18:17 ` Paul Eggert
2016-01-03 17:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 20:25 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 20:47 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 21:07 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 21:28 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 21:31 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 15:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-04 15:29 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 16:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 21:45 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 22:20 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 22:43 ` Crash recovery strategies (was: Dynamic modules: MODULE_HANDLE_SIGNALS etc.) John Wiegley
2016-01-03 22:55 ` Crash recovery strategies Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 22:59 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 23:04 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 23:20 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 23:47 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 23:51 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 0:12 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-04 15:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-04 15:44 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 15:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-04 15:34 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 16:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-03 23:21 ` Paul Eggert
2016-01-03 23:24 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 23:28 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-04 0:51 ` Paul Eggert
2016-01-03 23:27 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 23:29 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 23:33 ` Sending automatic crash reports to the FSF (was: Crash recovery strategies) John Wiegley
2016-01-03 23:36 ` Sending automatic crash reports to the FSF Daniel Colascione
2016-01-03 23:39 ` John Wiegley
2016-01-03 23:48 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 1:34 ` Crash recovery strategies Drew Adams
2016-01-04 15:32 ` Crash recovery strategies (was: Dynamic modules: MODULE_HANDLE_SIGNALS etc.) Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-04 15:35 ` Crash recovery strategies Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 16:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-05 4:48 ` Richard Stallman
2016-01-05 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-05 16:37 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-01-05 17:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-05 17:38 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-01-04 15:31 ` Dynamic modules: MODULE_HANDLE_SIGNALS etc Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-04 15:41 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-01-04 16:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-04 15:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-01-04 15:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-24 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-24 18:06 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-24 19:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-22 16:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-22 16:32 ` John Wiegley
2015-12-22 20:31 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-22 20:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-22 20:52 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-22 21:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-22 21:18 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-23 16:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-23 16:25 ` Crash robustness (Was: Re: Dynamic modules: MODULE_HANDLE_SIGNALS etc.) Daniel Colascione
2015-12-23 17:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-23 17:41 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-23 17:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-23 17:56 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-23 18:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-23 18:19 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-23 18:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-24 3:26 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-12-21 18:57 ` Dynamic modules: MODULE_HANDLE_SIGNALS etc Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-21 20:15 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-12-20 15:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-20 18:27 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-12-20 19:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-20 21:00 ` Philipp Stephani
2017-03-26 20:18 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-02-29 22:48 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-03-01 16:41 ` Paul Eggert
2016-03-01 21:43 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-03-02 18:54 ` Paul Eggert
2016-03-31 18:44 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-04-01 8:29 ` Paul Eggert
2015-11-28 23:20 ` Paul Eggert
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