From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:26:18 +0300 Message-ID: <83imhzecc5.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8wXYP4GY9hwW-9mYv6_LGMETZ8Vz3Ob1Bec6yh6kPT7yxjTkxA3V6dXY4ELra9tYiJUxJmgXKSIEX4w8HFiPRoeGVSQHDSoBVy1voj1e3Qo=@protonmail.com> <83lfmxgt6c.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhbcg6s4.fsf@gnu.org> <833694f29y.fsf@gnu.org> <4amRIW9fznS6sa3th4xPABzua9LQDlNPeIFxVsGYdq_wsg4-Ea1l9sEP-T6QrnO5QMV3jhgrnAspk2mSIC7COlodqr04koAcIPYPLLmPHFM=@protonmail.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="118488"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: yandros@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru To: ndame Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 16 16:27:26 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jP5UE-000UiQ-Cx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 16:27:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35000 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jP5UD-000258-Fc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:27:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41291) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jP5TW-0001NS-Gp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:26:43 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33242) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jP5TV-0001WT-QD; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:26:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3177 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jP5TN-00082y-Mj; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:26:34 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4amRIW9fznS6sa3th4xPABzua9LQDlNPeIFxVsGYdq_wsg4-Ea1l9sEP-T6QrnO5QMV3jhgrnAspk2mSIC7COlodqr04koAcIPYPLLmPHFM=@protonmail.com> (message from ndame on Thu, 16 Apr 2020 06:00:33 +0000) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247089 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 06:00:33 +0000 > From: ndame > Cc: "yandros@gmail.com" , "dgutov@yandex.ru" , "rms@gnu.org" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" > > > > > > We don't use the native buttons on MS-Windows. The only native > > widgets used on MS-Windows (AFAIR) are the menu bar and the scroll > > bars. > > Interesting. I sort of assumed Emacs looks the same everywhere and > thought all emacs users saw these old fashioned buttons if they > open up Customize which I see on Windows. Emacs's look-and-feel varies depending on the toolkit used to build it. So it cannot look the same everywhere, not in every aspect of the GUI decorations and widgets. > But if emacs uses native buttons elsewhere then it means Emacs > can look much better on other platforms, at least as far as > we consider GUI widgets. I think you are generalizing too much here. We don't use toolkit widgets for every element of our GUI. So some "buttons" are native (for example, the tool bar of the GTK+ build), while others are not. Which toolkit build uses what widgets where depends on what the people who wrote the related code did, not some policy decision. And sometimes we even have options to let users choose between native and Emacs-implemented GUI elements, like the x-gtk-use-system-tooltips in the GTK builds. > Wouldn't it make sense to use native controls on every graphical > platform? That has advantages, of course, but also some disadvantages. Complexity of code is one of the disadvantages, because some widgets of some toolkits require special code (like separate input loops) to be able to use them, or because they have some limitations (e.g., GTK tooltips cannot display images, at least the way we invoke those tooltips.