From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 08:52:47 +0300 Message-ID: <83imc90zbk.fsf@gnu.org> References: <875z8ortot.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <83lfhjkq0r.fsf@gnu.org> <8620B5CD-CA92-46BF-80A8-DBE7052F4CA6@gmail.com> <87d02haj4g.fsf@mercovich.net> <87ft7dn0um.fsf@posteo.net> <831rix3ci8.fsf@gnu.org> <878sd5aba5.fsf@mercovich.net> <83y2l51uh1.fsf@gnu.org> <874knta1e4.fsf@mercovich.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32234"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: self@gkayaalp.com, philipk@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, casouri@gmail.com, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Eduardo Mercovich Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 20 07:53:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJsI4-0008HZ-GH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 07:53:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39070 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJsI3-00015x-JX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 01:53:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53436) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJsHL-0000fs-R9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 01:52:51 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59075) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJsHJ-0005g2-01; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 01:52:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3202 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kJsHI-0007VQ-Ge; Sun, 20 Sep 2020 01:52:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: <874knta1e4.fsf@mercovich.net> (message from Eduardo Mercovich on Sat, 19 Sep 2020 18:43:15 -0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256232 Archived-At: > From: Eduardo Mercovich > Cc: philipk@posteo.net, self@gkayaalp.com, casouri@gmail.com, > stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 18:43:15 -0300 > > >> 1. distributions first [...] > > > I don't see any need to do this, certainly not as the first step. If > > someone wants one of those versions, they don't need us. > > New users don't know they exist... we are only opening their eyes. I think they already do know. Moreover, I think they will decide to try those before they get to see what you are planning to make happen. > >> 2. General editor preferences [...] > > > My suggestion is to focus on this part alone. Getting that right is > > not easy, and if successful, will be a significant advancement, IMO. > > Perfect. Is it there any agreed upon list of things on this front? Not only don't we have an agreed-upon list, we don't even have a proposal for an exhaustive list. I think the list will be quite long, and if so, it will have to be subdivided into some groups; we don't have any idea or suggestions for what those groups might be. If we can come up with such a list, discuss it, agree on it, and have a reasonable grouping (if needed), that would be a huge progress towards making everything discussed here close to happening. > Just as a check, do you agree that it is desirable to separate text and options > from the executable code? (sorry if my language is not appropriate, > please correct me as much as needed, I'm not a native English speaker). I don't think I understand what you mean by "text" and "executable code" in this context. If by "executable code" you mean the Lisp program which implements the list of options and their presentation to the user, then this can come later. We need first to have the list of options. Once we have that, we can talk about how to present them, and finally implement that. > Or maybe having this in a literate file, alternating both text and code (but > not mixed with UI text inside the code). The form is up to you. The important part is to focus first on the list of options, without distracting ourselves to aspects of code that are not the primary goal at this first stage.