From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Platform independent graphical display for Emacs Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 15:42:31 +0200 Message-ID: <83ilveruew.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87ilvgwfor.fsf@telefonica.net> <83a6grx1o9.fsf@gnu.org> <834k6zwvi1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7azilmu.fsf@yahoo.com> <87sfujh4a2.fsf@yahoo.com> <877dbuhm6j.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tueyg5gc.fsf@yahoo.com> <87lf0a2uq0.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7aytedn.fsf@telefonica.net> <83mtkqrz14.fsf@gnu.org> <87czlmta12.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35922"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 24 14:43:17 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n0kqr-000996-De for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 14:43:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51590 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0kqp-0003K1-EC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 08:43:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37338) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0kq0-0002fd-KK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 08:42:24 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=56912 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0kpz-0000Eg-Ps; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 08:42:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=piuzTo8Brb5jeSLNmr0WUOCT3ly1RFHoS5bT2gnUxhs=; b=P2OO4PnGu3uCPS6TLBud K4xgM71kHj/WVp3UVL8mL7cjMIiGez/lJx4VH8UGWi4tvstPbElf/RVbucqjuDXlcztHyuB7I8Dxm RRKMzH5hrz993nPi+HntCS6XcR5ikpMeC7Qqf8X95GYn2iYKin8lS/eYe3tWGxxNES+w2a5d+Cx6Y ntpTTalOW2Wx7PuM1Td6BzdTUZPmlluU98/VfFr7Ia6YUFPZvzQ9b/m+q53eFzD+2kEeDyevwlUsd X2RjUV7vBD52YdzZzFTKp2a7ExzbmaBd1mWNPRqWKRX2doOhVnGXz3zfmIpvEotpQi+eWewBCAMGK h007pHEhGWOmhA==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4316 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0kpz-0006mP-J4; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 08:42:23 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87czlmta12.fsf@telefonica.net> (message from =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes on Fri, 24 Dec 2021 14:19:53 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:283143 Archived-At: > From: Óscar Fuentes > Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 14:19:53 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> 1: What is "platform-native" varies with each new major release of GTK > >> and Windows. > > > > But it changes for all the GUI applications, not just for Emacs. > > Which means that they value consistency with other applications that > follow the platform standard. > > However, Emacs is already largely deviant from the platform's UI. On > MS-Windows, things like customize-variable shows an interface which has > nothing to do with the platform's standard GUI widgets. Isn't that so on other platforms as well? Wherever Emacs invented its own UI, that UI and its widgets will always be different from the platform standards. > It seems that the only elements which are "native" in the MS-Windows > port are the menu and the dialogs. And the scroll bars. And the frame decorations. Is that different from other toolkits? OK, so with GTK we also use their tool bar and tooltips (and get to live with their limitations), but other than that? > If we add to that that Emacs has its own way of doing things (M-x > command system, interaction through the minibuffer instead of dialogs, > different keyboard shorcuts for standard actions like cut&paste, etc.) > we could conclude that Emacs already is very alien to > MS-Windows/GTK/MacOS UI standards. That's an exaggeration. > So I can hardly imagine a typical Emacs user that could make a big issue > about the menus or dialogs being a bit different from what his > platform's standard ones are, as long as the replacement is not ugly > ("ugly" in the sense the motif menu is ugly compared to Lucid and GTK.) That's an "ad absurdum" kind of argument. In general, Emacs does do some (quite a few) thing differently, and where it does, it does so uniformly on all platforms, more or less (I think NS is the largest outlier here, with its Cmd key). But this is a tangent: we weren't discussing the entire UI and its conventions, we only discussed the GUI aspects of the Emacs appearance.