From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suppressing native compilation (short and long term) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2022 20:41:22 +0300 Message-ID: <83ill0yfct.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87bkqxf1ij.fsf@tethera.net> <8335c9dkyf.fsf@gnu.org> <83edvqafr7.fsf@gnu.org> <83h70m19yv.fsf@gnu.org> <87tu4mm7kt.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <87pmfa9k30.fsf@gnus.org> <83r0zqysyu.fsf@gnu.org> <877d1im5k3.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <83h70myrrp.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0zqknrx.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4837"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, yandros@gmail.com, tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Rob Browning Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 03 19:57:34 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ofPh8-00012X-Im for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 19:57:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38736 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofPh7-0001TI-Hq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 13:57:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58808) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofPRo-0001cw-Lp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 13:41:45 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52442) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofPRn-00043r-B1; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 13:41:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=3+V1kaaOAb0891uIV1Tm8HM0cO+p3BoSbz7fkimw5U0=; b=jhGTHYd3mZZ8 XpYgGFsVCv2k+sF23f3psZc/1xRWfF7XaTxd5WJeVsKHaTij04v2uuLY+xKqGXKv+Iyehsxxrb2X6 ffqT//K9TsY4cWWzVmEqNXeHQDA7Hnu047V18q/a/d7gOVUdJhYm9NHeRh9vVde753pDH1/2HdkxE rY3IabL6kO1gy7TgG/RJcJUKbR7HebAxDZ36VfQkHfVn30F0CDlrKjCojHrfCYwZz0rzSUgEWPWzO /bHd/WOlFj/1pw9eEQCAO+7gUqiCM5WE/seEvmakFnNfnFv4qTHFhZ/9HmDZmwA70zjbFT29OZt1V 8Uo8HYp4kf9hP0D5Iqd/lw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1728 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofPRZ-0003KV-9V; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 13:41:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87r0zqknrx.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> (message from Rob Browning on Sun, 02 Oct 2022 14:50:58 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:296775 Archived-At: [Full disclosure: evidently, none of what I write below matters, so feel free to ignore.] > From: Rob Browning > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, yandros@gmail.com, tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2022 14:50:58 -0500 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Even if we are talking about two different users on the same system? > > IOW, this is a system-wide restriction? Isn't that too harsh? > > The available Debian packages are a balance, intended to cover a broad > set of common cases, i.e. Emacs without X, Emacs with the Lucid toolkit > (because of, if nothing else, gtk issues), and Emacs with the GTK > toolkit. > > You can only have one of them installed at a time, and you can > (currently) only have one major version installed at a time. > > https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=emacs That's strange to hear. Even MS-Windows allows per-user variations of PATH and per-use environment variables. It is strange to learn that Debian doesn't. > > And what about users who make changes to Emacs -- is that a legitimate > > use case supported by Debian installations? > > I'd say that up to a point you can, and I have symlinked the relevant > .el files into a ~/ directory, made sure that it's in my load-path, and > then made adjustments, but past a certain point, I'd say that you'd want > to switch to building Emacs yourself. If you want to support even just installing a different minor version, it will already require to recompile all of the *.eln files. But okay, yes, if Debian users live under such severe restrictions, then the case for having user-specific *.eln directories becomes weaker. But I still don't see that it is weaker than disallowing native compilation at run time. And I guess now I'm confused what is it exactly that you'd want to achieve. Do you want to disable native compilation, or do you want to have all *.eln files in a shared location? Because it seems to me you said you wanted both, and I don't see how both could be reconciled.