From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 17:51:12 +0200 Message-ID: <83il6bylfz.fsf@gnu.org> References: <871qd8sfdx.fsf@posteo.net> <838r7g8pys.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <83sf5fyx60.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7g3ynjp.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21168"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: acm@muc.de, dmitry@gutov.dev, bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 09 16:52:30 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r17KY-0005Dn-Gg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 16:52:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r17JU-0005vg-8R; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 10:51:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r17JS-0005up-Sz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 10:51:23 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r17JR-0007HP-M9; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 10:51:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=HFbow4BFV2KZ9bfHAGki7A4P/BDbtNHRzE2C3NMnWeQ=; b=HpxVCRtzQxDl+oWYpUcQ S8T9yTTOFc6hYkVrsb9LIiWZykeaRYyG7TrYQT0NWbD6EJvkXUW0vAGmdHDUyIq2mWJI8Ger0yAEu JE3qpyqyACRMcg7I1hVxnJ8CUgZ8zfA+y1uATlHmnPE6CEHR3HbdIOryWuC9ekaPKEj4IEmnEyZ+j YT+SYI6ScL17Kg2rP3nD4oJRbi9LyPXLV6kC/dyG4Mbu8XC0zbDtCjgKSW5qir1SDei/sFIICPgHg VEMiYyVGFlt8hkOw8ErgudnTT81zww81OUi/nOvteXBfardIBBwtJcS3yt3MoHlcDJ3AKokgjMTcy r4t/MhIoLTbC1Q==; In-Reply-To: (message from =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= on Thu, 9 Nov 2023 15:39:48 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312426 Archived-At: > From: João Távora > Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2023 15:39:48 +0000 > Cc: acm@muc.de, dmitry@gutov.dev, bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > And what I'm trying to say is that all those difficulties are much > much less importnat than shortcomings in domain knowledge. Not IME, FWIW. > Maybe _somewhat_ easier, but to what loss? Aggravated contributors, > endless hair-splitting of what exactly good style is. And style > preferences change anyway: what I "liked" 10 years ago is not what > I like now. It's really a bad idea. You will not find any message from me that says we should ban cl-lib. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else. All I'm saying is that people should not dismiss this aspect so easily, when they consider the subject. It is not just a coding style issue.