From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 18:10:22 +0200 Message-ID: <83h9wlni4x.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87388bnzha.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87k31mdbhe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx0qiv45.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9wqd3i5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fvc8kdsp.fsf@gnu.org> <6e11cd85-09a0-4b7a-baa2-0c810bdebbce@default> <871tnsg0w7.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <834msoqrsg.fsf@gnu.org> <5498C82D.5080605@cs.ucla.edu> <54991A97.1070605@cs.ucla.edu> <83zjaenryt.fsf@gnu.org> <5499D9D7.3010405@cs.ucla.edu> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1419437479 28377 80.91.229.3 (24 Dec 2014 16:11:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 16:11:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, adatgyujto@gmail.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, yuri.v.khan@gmail.com To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 24 17:11:11 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3oWk-0007Se-65 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 17:11:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48767 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3oWj-0004IK-D2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:11:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48024) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3oWB-0003lI-Rv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:10:36 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3oW7-0008Du-Vc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:10:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout29.012.net.il ([80.179.55.185]:52839) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3oW7-0008Dd-IL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:10:31 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout29.012.net.il by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NH300O00GOPE100@mtaout29.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 18:07:48 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NH300E65GSZVJ60@mtaout29.012.net.il>; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 18:07:48 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <5499D9D7.3010405@cs.ucla.edu> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.185 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180644 Archived-At: > Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 13:08:39 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: drew.adams@oracle.com, yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, > lennart.borgman@gmail.com, adatgyujto@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > I switched from the info index (which didn't work for me first > time) to a search engine (which did). You switched too soon, without trying with Info the same approach you did with Web search -- a search for a fixed string. > Why should I insist on slowing myself down with inferior > technology? Because it's not inferior, at least not in this use case. It has the same capabilities for this specific use case, and the hits it brings you are guaranteed to be accurate for the version of the software you have installed. You are free to use whatever you like, of course, but I see no basis for your assertion that using Info before trying the Web is not a good idea. > There are 880 > nodes in the ELisp manual, out of which 116, including "Time of Day", > didn't follow that rule (they do now) > > > Thanks, that's undoubtedly an improvement to the manually-maintained > index, but it underscores a problem with the way we're currently > using Texinfo. If anything, it underscores how well we are using it. > Here's an extract from the current emacs-24 > documentation source: > > > * Standard Abbrev Tables:: Abbrev tables used by various major modes. > ... > @node Standard Abbrev Tables > @section Standard Abbrev Tables > @cindex standard abbrev tables > ... > * Standard Abbrev Tables:: Abbrev tables used by various major modes. > Although this kind of repetition may be needed in the *output* of > makeinfo, it shouldn't be necessary in its *input*. It's not always repetition. That index entry, like any good index entry, needs a human judgment call. But if we care we could ask the Texinfo maintainers to add a feature where each @node contributes to the Concept Index. Feel free to report this to them. > overall it's clearly a mess that gets in the way of real > improvements, and contributors shouldn't have to put up with this > sort of thing. That's an exaggeration, I think.