From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Fix some tooltip related problems Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 11:55:14 +0200 Message-ID: <83h8rr2ygt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <5A533FA4.4030507@gmx.at> <9384bae5-cbb9-4b4d-ac5c-1d01f01c8117@default> <5A53B633.5020706@gmx.at> <41d40db5-15d8-4b2c-a058-fb6dabc8bfd3@default> <5A548E7E.2040601@gmx.at> <5A55E8ED.1010602@gmx.at> <475d480b-3885-4779-ae46-09cf7fbbcee7@default> <5A5742E7.3070303@gmx.at> <5A5799A5.1070305@gmx.at> <878td4fh4r.fsf@gmail.com> <83a7xk46pp.fsf@gnu.org> <874lnrfp1n.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1515750866 14533 195.159.176.226 (12 Jan 2018 09:54:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 09:54:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Robert Pluim Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 12 10:54:22 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eZw2P-0002rI-8T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:54:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58163 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZw4O-0004m8-KM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2018 04:56:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35474) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZw3n-0004lx-B8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2018 04:55:40 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZw3k-0006LG-9L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2018 04:55:39 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38081) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZw3k-0006LC-5y; Fri, 12 Jan 2018 04:55:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3687 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eZw3j-0004uV-Hy; Fri, 12 Jan 2018 04:55:36 -0500 In-reply-to: <874lnrfp1n.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Robert Pluim on Fri, 12 Jan 2018 09:40:20 +0100) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:221883 Archived-At: > From: Robert Pluim > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 09:40:20 +0100 > > > A lot. I'm firmly against removing toolkits to appease GTK. I think > > GTK is an unholy mess, which can some day simply stop being supported, > > and we definitely shouldn't lose useful features in its favor. > > OK. But if we stop supporting GTK at some point, what ends up being > its replacement? I doubt we'll be able to support Lucid and Motif > forever, given that X is going to be replaced with Wayland. We should indeed move to supporting Wayland natively; volunteers are most welcome to work on that. The Cairo support was supposed to be the first step in that direction, but it has known bugs and needs a lot of loving care for us to be able to turn it on by default. Working on this requires to have experts on board that we unfortunately don't seem to have at this time, and that gap bothers me personally quite a lot, because I think it's a serious threat to Emacs's future. But in any case, we should try to keep support for toolkits for as long as they are used/usable, precisely because the future in this area is so uncertain and not under any control/influence of our project. And we should also keep the no-toolkit build alive, because it provides an easy way for quick-and-dirty integration with any toolkit: you just write a small set of relatively simple functions that implement few key interfaces, and you are basically done. IOW, we should spread our risks in this and similar areas as wide as possible.