From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs i18n (was: bug#34520: delete-matching-lines should report how many lines it deleted) Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2019 17:31:54 +0200 Message-ID: <83h8ckezyt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87o97aq6gz.fsf@jidanni.org> <87tvgoud56.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o96wk2mi.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1hjfvjd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <871s3p0zdz.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="47284"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@linkov.net To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 03 16:33:04 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1h0T6t-000C8m-Rd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2019 16:33:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40740 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h0T6s-0008NT-8b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2019 10:33:02 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57698) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h0T63-0008NC-Dz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2019 10:32:12 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59294) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h0T62-0004di-Fl; Sun, 03 Mar 2019 10:32:10 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1432 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1h0T5v-00089d-CQ; Sun, 03 Mar 2019 10:32:03 -0500 In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Sat, 02 Mar 2019 22:04:06 -0500) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:233798 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2019 22:04:06 -0500 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > (advice-add 'message :around > (lambda (orig-fun format-string &rest args) > (apply orig-fun (apply 'i18n-get-translation format-string args) args)) > '((name . message-i18n))) > ====================================================================== > > It seems pretty good. When installing it, it should not use > `advice-add'. Rather, `message' should call a list of functions. This has come up several times in the past. The main problem with i18n in Emacs is that, unlike in many text-mode programs, 'message' covers a tiny portion of the Emacs UI. We have help commands that pop up buffers; we have commands that prompt in the minibuffer; we have menu items and labels on tool-bar buttons; we have help-echo on menus, tool bar, the mode line, and mouse-sensitive text; we have tooltips; etc. etc. What's worse, most of the text shown by these features is computed dynamically by the commands that display the text. Any reasonably relevant i18n infrastructure for Emacs should address at least some of the above. For example, a significant progress could be made if we had infrastructure for translating doc strings, which would allow translators to provide message catalogs for individual Lisp packages. Past discussions revealed that even this limited progress is not really trivial. Unfortunately, past discussions didn't lead to any significant progress wrt this. While doing some progress would be welcome, I suggest that we don't pretend the solution is as easy as advice around 'message', but instead try to attack the more significant parts of the problem. Volunteers are welcome.