From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PL support Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 19:19:33 +0300 Message-ID: <83h7wl86sq.fsf@gnu.org> References: <9mmFgzvrBwjt_n_VJyaJdXINraNi5HsGpwq-0MLeKiJA7kG2BQA4uywrzjyz7lpRS0OZDpjEi8lspOKYUA7P_QsODsDew_8nbH960G55fmY=@protonmail.com> <83imh5dnun.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7wpdms7.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftc9dm07.fsf@gnu.org> <0d678371-2df7-519e-5ec0-7e26bfa6ea34@gmail.com> <11dff979-002e-e03e-2e3e-cdb09fcc409e@yandex.ru> <8017be3d-a4ed-61eb-9bdb-9a95c77a0698@gmail.com> <3adf65ae-fd0d-4fee-adfd-e11d39a148fc@yandex.ru> <01e211df-acfb-fb8a-eedc-7cb439b64cd8@yandex.ru> <57491476-b7d1-ed1e-9eaf-bc45db607ae8@yandex.ru> <835zd2bf2h.fsf@gnu.org> <1c43f78b-2bc5-8c81-4a57-ba63bb721c85@yandex.ru> <83wo5i9z21.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7wm9uy7.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="117415"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: cpitclaudel@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 12 18:21:20 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jYXeh-000ULK-7t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 18:21:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39856 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYXeg-00070a-9E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:21:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47060) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYXdS-0006Fj-TI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:20:02 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44533) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYXdS-0001ua-08; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:20:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4880 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jYXdJ-0008OY-B3; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:19:53 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Mon, 11 May 2020 15:49:11 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249989 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: dgutov@yandex.ru, rms@gnu.org, cpitclaudel@gmail.com, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 15:49:11 -0400 > > 1- Install Emacs. > 2- Try it out. > 3- It doesn't handle their OCaml code, doesn't give them any > completions while they type, nothing. > 4- They search the web for an answer. > 5- The answer tells them to install those things from MELPA. > 6- They wonder why on earth it's not enabled by default since it's > a matter of a couple lines and you can't do anything without it. > 7- Now it's enabled, so they have direct easy access to some packages > that recommend proprietary software. > > In which sense does this better promote Emacs and Free Software than if > we enabled a MELPA-Libre by default in `package-archives`? Does MELPA-Libre exist, or is it just an idea? I have nothing against MELPA-Libre, whether it exists or will be created at some future point, as long as it is not GNU ELPA, i.e. as long as it is not perceived as part of the GNU Emacs project. If it wants to be part of the Emacs project, and the packages are supposed to be movable between Emacs and MELPA-Libre, I will insist of applying the same rules and basic requirements to it that we apply to code in Emacs. Yes, this may mean that some features will not be part of Emacs OOTB, but I don't think that is a reason good enough to waive our development standards.