From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 21:50:18 +0300 Message-ID: <83h7s5ihzp.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sgbsb0eb.fsf@gmail.com> <20200909165723.kdnwicwvplmezusr@Ergus> <20200910102000.2t6tsju745xutg7u@Ergus> <20200910110832.ko66gqnqo4l664d6@Ergus> <83ft7pke22.fsf@gnu.org> <20200910131754.vmwb7wl3un7gt36k@Ergus> <834ko5k821.fsf@gnu.org> <20200910184011.jqix7cmvr5rohgp4@Ergus> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2938"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, ghe@sdf.org, tecosaur@gmail.com To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 10 21:02:15 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGRpm-0000f2-19 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 21:02:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50902 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGRpl-0008I1-0a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 15:02:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37444) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGReD-0005py-PH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 14:50:20 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36699) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGReD-0007KC-0C; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 14:50:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3993 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kGRe9-0000i3-86; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 14:50:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20200910184011.jqix7cmvr5rohgp4@Ergus> (message from Ergus on Thu, 10 Sep 2020 20:40:11 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255036 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 20:40:11 +0200 > From: Ergus > Cc: casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, > monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, ghe@sdf.org, tecosaur@gmail.com > > >> 1) Bind it also to another key > > > >This is what I had in mind. > > > Of course, this is the first to do in any case. Do you have any binding > in mind? Not in particular. I think we should see what other keys customary open menus in applications that don't want to use F10. > >> 2) Show the binding somewhere (in the same bar or modeline) when > >> xterm-mouse-mode is disabled. > > > >I don't see how xterm-mouse-mode is relevant: we are not talking about > >the mouse, and TTY menus work without a mouse as well. > > > Ex: in gnome-terminal (which captures the F10) and with xterm-mouse-mode > disabled it is almost impossible to access the menu (unless throw > M-x but then the user can type the commands without needing the > menubar). You can open the menu. and then navigate it. That the command which opens the menu is invoked through M-x doesn't yet mean the rest of the navigation is useless: the user can learn how to open the menu (a single command), but still find the rest of the commands via the menus, thus avoiding the need to know which commands they invoke. > >> 3) Underline the letter in the menus that "opens" each menu from the > >> keyboard (as some Windows applications do) > > > >How will that help? > > > With a disabled xterm-mouse-mode a first timer user doesn't know how to > open the menu-bar, even its name. It will be specially useful to give > some hints. I disagree. Once upon a time F10 was the universally accepted way. If nowadays it is another key, or a group of other keys, we could still provide menus that don't need a mouse.