From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Confused by y-or-n-p Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 17:14:45 +0200 Message-ID: <83h7nu2j2y.fsf@gnu.org> References: <834kkcr1eo.fsf@gnu.org> <43b24209-fa65-0e26-7cbd-f99175a7ffd8@gmx.at> <87wnx7j5is.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83im8qnyca.fsf@gnu.org> <83bleinmse.fsf@gnu.org> <56435592-d2d0-5fb6-977f-01e1931da835@gmx.at> <87k0t38g1z.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83czyvkts6.fsf@gnu.org> <87bleetirr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87y2hhri3n.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83pn2tkfg8.fsf@gnu.org> <871rf7ippu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83a6trg6mc.fsf@gnu.org> <87im8f951f.fsf@gnus.org> <83lfdacapo.fsf@gnu.org> <831rf0d9uq.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9789"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, larsi@gnus.org, juri@linkov.net, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 06 16:16:38 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kxAY9-0002Pp-AT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Jan 2021 16:16:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41734 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxAY8-0007Qz-AY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Jan 2021 10:16:36 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59678) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxAWh-0006r4-6a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jan 2021 10:15:07 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34005) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kxAWf-0004ly-Gw; Wed, 06 Jan 2021 10:15:05 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3568 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kxAWO-0005GL-7l; Wed, 06 Jan 2021 10:14:57 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Wed, 06 Jan 2021 00:01:09 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:262594 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, > drew.adams@oracle.com, juri@linkov.net > Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 00:01:09 -0500 > > > Users don't track emacs-devel, either. In fact, most users nowadays > > don't like to use mailing lists at all. > > You are right that most users don't pay attention to the work we are > doing while we are doing it. They will not comment on it. > > Thus we have been talking, all along, about the users that do pay > attention, and might comment on proposed changes. The words you > quoted above refer to them, too. Then we are talking about some arbitrary sample of users on which we have no control. Thus, nothing prevents us from talking about another arbitrary sample: those who track both emacs-devel and the bug list. The life of the head maintainers is already complicated enough, so I object to making it significantly more complicated and time-consuming just because we want to save someone the trouble of reading another mailing list. > > So I don't see how forcing > > discussions to happen on emacs-devel will reach the goal of helping > > users notice important changes and object in time. > > It will give help all the users who follow emacs-devel to take note > of a proposed change. That is what we presume will happen, but it isn't > happening reliably. I see no reason to believe that the users who read emacs-devel, but don't read the bug list, are more important for getting feedback from than those who read both. I could make a case for the opposite, in fact. Btw, all the persons involved in the discussion of the y-or-n-p issue read both lists, AFAIK.