From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2021 15:36:13 +0300 Message-ID: <83h7f4qxqa.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <83tujbqg4j.fsf@gnu.org> <46353190-1190-495f-b15e-22980159b3ab@yandex.ru> <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> <51a363db-fde7-791d-cf8d-98ac601d62ee@yandex.ru> <57ca4d78-2339-201d-edce-678c9b003a99@yandex.ru> <83bl5dsh8b.fsf@gnu.org> <8335qps8vs.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30971"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: philipk@posteo.net, danflscr@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dgutov@yandex.ru To: John Yates Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 01 14:41:15 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mLPYA-0007WD-MB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 14:41:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51828 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLPY8-0004Ff-JG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 08:41:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37362) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLPTf-0008FK-2w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 08:36:27 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46074) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLPTd-0008T6-Bg; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 08:36:25 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2715 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLPTW-0003v7-UE; Wed, 01 Sep 2021 08:36:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from John Yates on Wed, 1 Sep 2021 07:35:10 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273647 Archived-At: > From: John Yates > Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 07:35:10 -0400 > Cc: Dmitry Gutov , Richard Stallman , danflscr@gmail.com, > Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Monnier , > Emacs developers > > > Emacs is an old and _stable_ package. "Stable" means just that: > > features burned into users' muscle memory don't just change every > > weekend. > > At 70, I still count myself as an "early adopter". I am unlikely to > accept having my world and habits disrupted every weekend. But > with somewhat longer time scales (e.g. Ubuntu's six month and > Android yearly cadences) I am quite comfortable. How long is "somewhat longer" is obviously very personal and differs between people. I've met people for whom 6 months is a blink of an eye. > > So we do it slowly, cautiously, and preferably via opt-in > > features, because we respect our users and their habits. > > Ah, but the model is opt-in to change, not opt-out. Thus > opponents of change start off with an advantage and set > the terms of debate. I said "preferably opt-in". We do make opt-out changes as well, just less so, for the reasons I tried to explain. > Other models are possible: > * Long term releases with sunset dates > * Previews of features that will become defaults with opt-out > * ? Someone™ should step forward and volunteer to manage such models. If and when they do, I don't see why not, at least not in principle. > Anyway, thank you, Eli, for your long, thoughtful reply and > for your project leadership. You are welcome.