unofficial mirror of emacs-devel@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
Cc: stephen@xemacs.org, dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org,
	monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: RCS, again: another removed functionality: undo last-checkin
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 22:54:12 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83fv1u8ivv.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <560D899A.4080805@yandex.ru>

> Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rms@gnu.org, stephen@xemacs.org, dak@gnu.org,
>  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 22:29:30 +0300
> 
> On 10/01/2015 08:52 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > I indeed think that features should rarely be removed, only added.
> 
> Then you must be prepared that at certain point the cost of improving 
> Emacs will be too much for anyone to do anything of significance to it.

That's a very distant possibility.  In general, most features are only
very loosely coupled, so the complexity increases very slowly,
certainly sub-linearly.  I don't see why we should be afraid of this
happening any time soon.

> > Yes, but different VCSes have different internal logic, so something
> > might make sense with RCS, but not with Git, or vice versa.  That's
> > the crux of the problem we are discussing, I think, so the question is
> > whether a feature must make sense for every back-end for it to be
> > considered as sensible.
> 
> It may be decided on a case-by-case basis, but the question is rather 
> whether it *could* be decided at all. The exact criterion, "make sense 
> for at least a half of all backends", or "make sense in at least one of 
> the modern backends", is up for discussion.

I think the popularity of a back-end should also be taken into
account.  SCCS, for example, is probably not very used.  We removed
vc-arch some time ago, for the same reasons.

> > I think there's a better alternative: start a new front end, which
> > will only support a subset of back-ends.  Then the elders can
> > peacefully continue using the old front-end, which will more or less
> > stop being developed, only maintained whenever some of the
> > infrastructure changes absolutely require that.
> 
> It's an option indeed, though one that requires a larger investment of 
> time

If it requires more time, then the situation with the existing
front-end is not too bad.  When it's really bad, forking a new
front-end should be much easier.

> And what if we make some unfortunate decision WRT to features when
> creating the second front-end, too? Wait a few years and create a
> third one?

We should try not to make unfortunate decisions.

> It also assumes that the set of backend commands can be static without 
> incurring any cost.

For old back-ends that no longer see significant development,
definitely.

> > Muscle memory is what stopping them.  It's a powerful thing.
> 
> It's easier to change than a big codebase full of features one is 
> absolutely not allowed to break.

Yes, because someone else needs to change ;-)



  reply	other threads:[~2015-10-01 19:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 140+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-09-20 14:33 RCS, again: another removed functionality: undo last-checkin Uwe Brauer
2015-09-20 14:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-20 14:58   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-20 15:39     ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-21  3:49       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-25  7:53         ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-20 15:40   ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-20 16:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-20 19:59   ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-20 20:01   ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-20 23:24   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-21  6:50     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21  7:25       ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21  7:56         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21  8:13           ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21  8:16             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21  8:27               ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21  8:37                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21  8:58                   ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21  9:42                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 10:18                       ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21 10:21                       ` Bastian Beischer
2015-09-22  6:56           ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-22 11:49             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-22 22:02               ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-22 22:49                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-09-23  6:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23  7:18                     ` David Kastrup
2015-09-23  8:28                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-23  9:54                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23 22:09                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-23  5:36                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23  6:52                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23 13:26                   ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-23 13:39                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23 15:02                       ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-23 15:13                         ` David Kastrup
2015-09-23 15:31                           ` Andreas Schwab
2015-09-23 14:38                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-23 14:59                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23 15:21                       ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-23 15:27                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23 17:33                           ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-30  2:27                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-30  4:53                               ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-30  6:46                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-30  8:37                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-30  8:52                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-30 11:35                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-30 12:39                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-10-01  2:22                                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-01  2:32                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02  2:27                                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02  6:37                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02  7:17                                                   ` Andreas Schwab
2015-10-02  7:38                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-03  1:37                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02  6:56                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-03  1:37                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-30 14:00                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01  2:34                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01  7:06                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 19:43                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 19:59                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 20:06                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 20:12                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 20:22                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
     [not found]                                                         ` <83a8s28gun.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-10-01 21:01                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-10-01 21:04                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 21:01                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02  6:32                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-02  6:41                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02  7:39                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-30 12:38                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2015-10-02  2:27                                         ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02  2:27                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02  2:24                                 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02  3:34                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2015-10-02  7:11                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-02 12:54                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2015-10-02 13:42                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-02 14:32                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02 14:40                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-02 14:54                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02 14:59                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-02 15:44                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2015-10-02 16:32                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-30  6:37                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-30 11:27                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-30 14:13                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01  2:47                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01  7:18                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 12:54                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 13:07                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 17:36                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 17:52                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 19:29                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 19:54                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2015-10-01 20:13                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 23:55                                               ` Drew Adams
2015-10-02  0:07                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02  6:16                                                   ` Drew Adams
2015-10-02  2:27                                             ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02  4:07                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02  4:13                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23 19:03                     ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-23 22:12                     ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-25  8:29                       ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-26  1:10                         ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-23 22:10                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-25  8:30                     ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-23  6:37                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 13:13         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-21 13:59           ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21 18:39           ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-21 14:02       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-21 16:07         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 16:58           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-21 17:06             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 17:24               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-21 19:17                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 19:30                   ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21 19:33                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-21 19:53                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-22  0:39                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-22  6:18                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-22 13:08                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-22 13:45                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-22 18:59                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-22 19:05                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23  5:54                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23  6:58                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23 14:49                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23 22:08                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-21 19:18                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-22  0:26                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-22  6:16                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-22 12:32                       ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-22  6:32                     ` Steinar Bang
2015-09-20 17:09 ` Steinar Bang

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=83fv1u8ivv.fsf@gnu.org \
    --to=eliz@gnu.org \
    --cc=dak@gnu.org \
    --cc=dgutov@yandex.ru \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca \
    --cc=rms@gnu.org \
    --cc=stephen@xemacs.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).