From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Option to not automatically customize-save-variable `package-selected-packages' Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 20:15:16 +0200 Message-ID: <83fuwpubpn.fsf@gnu.org> References: <56C43D17.7010009@alice.it> <831t8aufoe.fsf@gnu.org> <8737sp51vx.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455819332 3433 80.91.229.3 (18 Feb 2016 18:15:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 18:15:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: johnw@gnu.org, angelo.graziosi@alice.it, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Artur Malabarba Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 18 19:15:27 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aWT6r-0004zE-Qo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:15:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44088 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWT6q-0000Qs-RC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 13:15:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54590) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWT6b-0000Nh-El for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 13:15:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWT6a-0001X3-1x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 13:15:09 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53521) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWT6T-0001Oo-DX; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 13:15:01 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1965 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aWT6S-00051l-LH; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 13:15:01 -0500 In-reply-to: <8737sp51vx.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Artur Malabarba on Thu, 18 Feb 2016 16:06:42 -0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:200141 Archived-At: > From: Artur Malabarba > Cc: johnw@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, angelo.graziosi@alice.it > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 16:06:42 -0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > I don't see why this should block the release. It's a very old and > > established behavior. It's okay to discuss changing it, but blocking > > the release due to it certainly doesn't sound TRT to me. > > It's not yet part of a stable release, so if this variable is going to cease > being a custom-variable I'd like to decide that before release. It's a little too late for that, I'd say. > OTOH, implementing this as a separate file is prone to introduce bugs, > so I guess it would be a bad idea to introduce such functionality so > close to release. So what other options are there? > > This seems to be a general complaint about package.el using Custom to > > save the data about installed packages. I see no arguments as to why > > it's wrong to use Custom for that. > > My reason is that Custom is bad for saving data that gets changed > programatically (not just by the user). > > > After all, Custom is our standard way of saving customizations, > > The problem is that this is not strictly a customization. > > The list of manually installed packages is more akin to the list of > abbrevs, or to `desktop-save-mode's data. That is, it is data that > gets programmatically changed by lisp code, without the user's knowledge. > > Just like the abbrev and the desktop data are saved to their own files, > I think the list of selected packages should too. I seed your point, but I don't agree. I see no fundamental difference between saving the value of a defcustom and saving the list of packages the user decided to install.