From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: BIKESHED: completion faces Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2019 16:08:40 +0200 Message-ID: <83ftizg4nr.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83h83ignrz.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftj2gma8.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhhaxalt.fsf@gmail.com> <83bltpgffr.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv7gg9oz.fsf@gnu.org> <83r22kg8pa.fsf@gnu.org> <20191106205133.njij3ve7qqy7yh3q@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="157502"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: dgutov@yandex.ru, joaotavora@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 07 15:09:03 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iSiT9-000enk-Pk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2019 15:09:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43026 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iSiT8-0000lB-Jg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2019 09:09:02 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44442) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iSiT2-0000kj-2r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2019 09:08:57 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42740) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iSiT0-0000k3-WC; Thu, 07 Nov 2019 09:08:55 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4427 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iSiSz-00023k-F5; Thu, 07 Nov 2019 09:08:54 -0500 In-reply-to: <20191106205133.njij3ve7qqy7yh3q@Ergus> (message from Ergus on Wed, 6 Nov 2019 21:51:33 +0100) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:241918 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 21:51:33 +0100 > From: Ergus > Cc: João Távora , > emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dgutov@yandex.ru > > 1) It is the behaviour that the users expect, so familiar for them and > that will reduce learning curve (we have enough curve for a newbie). You mean, _some_ users. With that caveat, I agree. > 2) We should be modest and think that if most of the other editors > follow a similar approach there should be a reason for that. (also > private companies invest time and money in social market studies about > what option is better... that's why MS windows is blue and have changes > among the years, or the start button is in the left down corner) I don't think it's right for us to blindly follow what other editors do without (a) deciding positively that it's a good idea for Emacs, and (b) making sure the new feature is adapted to the basic Emacs operation. One issue I have with "the other editors" in this regard is that the way their completion UI works (specifically, how the candidates are presented) is many times very different from what we have in Emacs, so it will only work well to copy their faces if that makes sense in the context of Emacs completion UI. In any case, I already said I agree to have this as an optional behavior. We could have a special minor mode which will turn on whatever features we think people who come from other editors will expect. Many current Emacs defaults started that way, and I think it's a prudent way of introducing a feature that radically changes some part of our UI.