From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 19:33:25 +0300 Message-ID: <83ft79wz3e.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4be18b5f-dc07-2703-a2de-1ed08916ebdf@gmail.com> <20200921170740.GA3551@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200922062437.GM6402@protected.rcdrun.com> <83zh5hx5qf.fsf@gnu.org> <83sgb9x4q2.fsf@gnu.org> <7AC04422-8250-4A86-9064-BE6627726ABB@gnu.support> <83mu1hx1t4.fsf@gnu.org> <20200922160355.GB8564@protected.rcdrun.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36039"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: nicola.manca85@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 22 18:35:39 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kKlGU-0009CZ-PA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 18:35:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37432 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKlGS-0002KW-0f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 12:35:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54260) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKlER-0000n3-CS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 12:33:31 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53190) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKlEQ-0002F1-T5; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 12:33:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4655 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kKlEH-0004Uq-SH; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 12:33:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20200922160355.GB8564@protected.rcdrun.com> (message from Jean Louis on Tue, 22 Sep 2020 19:03:55 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256332 Archived-At: > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 19:03:55 +0300 > From: Jean Louis > Cc: rms@gnu.org, nicola.manca85@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > Which software specifically you installed with such assistants? > > > > Almost every application you install on a smartphone does that. > > Those on smartphone are not comparable directly to Emacs as text > editor You are missing the point. My point is that people nowadays are used to applications that start like that. They are therefore unlikely to be surprised if Emacs does. Whether this is appropriate for Emacs or not is a different question. I understand your point -- no need to reiterate it so many times -- but many people here disagree with you. > Emacs works without configuration. Yes, it does. The problem the "friendlier Emacs" proposal tries to solve is how to help new users discover features they might want, but which are disabled by default. The assumption is that doing so will help them start using Emacs more efficiently sooner. > Please also think on real users who don't use .emacs on multiple > computers, as I am real user who need Emacs without .emacs or wizards, > not just unnamed beginner, and I am promoting Emacs to new users too. You are not the only one who mentioned this aspect. So this issue is on the table, and will find its solution, this way or another. > Another thoughts, what is supposed to be done after the configuration > wizard have assumed that user is beginner because there is no .emacs > file and user pressed a key to choose one of the wizard options? The options the user selects will be saved for future sessions of this user.