From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Rethinking the design of xwidgets Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 18:32:48 +0300 Message-ID: <83ft6gzuu7.fsf@gnu.org> References: <864kmzupp0.fsf@akirakyle.com> <835z7e2ouj.fsf@gnu.org> <86v9fet5sg.fsf@akirakyle.com> <83imbe1040.fsf@gnu.org> <86pn5luak4.fsf@akirakyle.com> <83362g27y6.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22827"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ak@akirakyle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 14 17:34:04 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kSimy-0005oe-8Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 17:34:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58736 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kSimx-00022f-AV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 11:34:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51914) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kSild-0001B5-5O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 11:32:41 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59597) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kSilb-00062o-Lw; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 11:32:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2594 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kSilb-00059p-0D; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 11:32:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Arthur Miller on Wed, 14 Oct 2020 17:04:07 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257650 Archived-At: > From: Arthur Miller > Cc: Akira Kyle , emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 17:04:07 +0200 > > In case where there is a discret gfx card (i.e. Nvidia/AMD) it is > probably faster to send everything to GPU and ask it to render a > giant texture and then use it as XWindow pixmap, or something similar > then to figure out on CPU all the stuff that should not be displayed. I believe this should be the job of the GUI library we use (Xlib etc.) > But Emacs will maybe run on some slow devices (atmel Emacs anyone?), so > you probably don't want to ditch away all that disp stuff. Different Emacs configurations could employ different redisplay optimizations, if we know which ones are necessary when. > > We try not to use machine-dependent code in Emacs, because that's a > > maintenance burden, what with today's fast pace of chip development > > and obsolescence. Vectorization is generally left to optimizing > > compilers, and relying on special hardware, such as GPU, is not > > something we should depend on directly. We should instead hope that > > the GUI toolkits and display systems we use will do that for us. > Would it be considered too machine-dependent if you rendered into > off-screen OpenGL surface as your rendering target? Should be avialable > on Nvidia/AMD/Intels gpus. With offscreen egl you would have relatively > OS independent code too; but that would require explicit linking to > proprietary libs. I mean X11/Win32 already does that when proprietary > drivers are installed, so Emacs (and any other software) "implicitly" > links to those, but I don't how it is viewed if you would to explicitly > when present. Why should we do that in our own code, as opposed to using some higher-level library?