From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master fb061cd 1/4: ; * etc/NEWS: Rearrange and fix wording of some entries. Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2021 21:46:12 +0300 Message-ID: <83fsuhr18r.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20210906101353.11322.30746@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20210906101355.082C520A0A@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7989"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 06 20:48:11 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mNJf8-0001si-R3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 20:48:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43848 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNJf6-0006Gx-Ru for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 14:48:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38236) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNJdA-0004pt-0f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 14:46:09 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49394) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNJd6-0004nm-Tw; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 14:46:07 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1407 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNJd6-0000bm-HK; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 14:46:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 6 Sep 2021 20:33:36 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:274165 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 20:33:36 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > * Changes in Emacs 28.1 > > > > -** The new NonGNU ELPA archive is enabled by default alongside GNU ELPA. > [...] > > * Changes in Specialized Modes and Packages in Emacs 28.1 > [...] > > ** Package > > > > +*** The new NonGNU ELPA archive is enabled by default alongside GNU ELPA. > > +Thus, packages on nonGNU ELPA will appear by default in the list shown > > +by 'list-packages'. > > I strongly disagree with this change, for two important reasons: > > 1. This is not a change only in a specialized mode and package, but in > a very important Emacs default. The overwhelming majority of our > enthusiast user-base, and likely a large proportion of our user-base, > are using packages every day. In fact, many users couldn't imagine > using Emacs without them. It's a mistake if we treat this as some > sort of specialized concern. > > 2. This is one of the more significant changes in this release, and > deserves its place in the spotlight. I personally put it up there > together with native-comp as one of the things that really stand out > in this release, and that I believe many will be excited and happy to > hear about. I agree with all that you say (except the string disagreement ;-), but users will be oblivious to that change, unless the install packages from ELPA. The original entry, as stand-alone text, doesn't have any practical impact on users that don't install packages, and would just leave them wondering what is all this about. IOW, the changed default doesn't affect anyone who doesn't use package.el. Which is why I moved it under that section.