From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.general,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: @dircategory (Re: Translating Emacs manuals is of strategic importance) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:09:28 +0200 Message-ID: <83frz4mmef.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8734vda9kz.fsf@yahoo.com> <5EC9A02F-DB34-48B6-BD2D-CB9E89A385D0@traductaire-libre.org> <83r0iwuek9.fsf@gnu.org> <837cknvkrx.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0iuuacz.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12531"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: pertusus@free.fr, jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, help-texinfo@gnu.org To: Patrice Dumas Original-X-From: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 11 07:10:34 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: gnu-help-texinfo2@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rNoGv-00032o-Vp for gnu-help-texinfo2@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 07:10:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNoGV-00047Y-Hq; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 01:10:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNoGT-000472-By; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 01:10:05 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNoGO-0005vB-Mi; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 01:10:03 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=fjbC3iqUx+dJrgKxK6oKfIa9shwrTG7jJoxOH0ZavbM=; b=ahOXLPKup100ckiS4RUZ 4NG1Jt3xdEfs/iKxTEGvZlCzbWbY0JQkpzlW4w5N8+EwTrEwvDOwj9G3opkXbsFgAfBdhMhR1ryaT qSLtvcmLE2Gnp90+9xmYOYLxf5cIFdE3IJnfY6gOacNB7XWnyhUTVjgI2S4XyR/2zrlxOJREQJ3zS mQi9vzR+qGVO/Ow4SqSYhh1GQpL0MXkin2QSxKaGm6apaosa9uTOidx8AZ8RE4Aj+uJYBu81oAqlt gh7R6XHOpEKX06JArYIAkZ3TReu/v/3qJcBbu+qG0KvUfBNdrFRfvQ9UuDKpvapr3WBOiGPhBERYT rg89HflPiez0qg==; In-Reply-To: (message from Patrice Dumas on Wed, 10 Jan 2024 21:52:23 +0100) X-BeenThere: help-texinfo@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the Texinfo documentation system List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.general:3399 gmane.emacs.devel:314832 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 21:52:23 +0100 > From: Patrice Dumas > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas , > Vincent Belaïche , > emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, help-texinfo@gnu.org > > In any case, if a target manual is not yet translated, to me it is the > responsibility of the translator of amnual linking to it to either link > to the english manual, or to translate the node name in @ref even though > it won't lead to an existing manual and the name may need to be changed > later on to match with the actual name used in the translated manual. > To me both case could make sense depending on many criteria, such as > whether readers are likely to read english, whether manuals are > being translated... The translator doesn't always know whether a translated manual exists when the translation is being written. And even if a translated manual does exist, there's no reason to be sure it will be installed on the end-user's system. So it would be good to have some Texinfo feature that would make the behavior of Info readers more user-friendly in these cases. Right now, the Texinfo features that can help are @documentlanguage and the suggestion by Gavin to have in the translated manual an @anchor for each @node with the original English name of that @node. > In any case, I don't see any reason to do any automatic redirection in > the Info reader, it should remain simple and be the translators/writers > responsibilities. I don't think I agree, because leaving this completely to the responsibilities of the translator could easily produce sub-optimal results. > Another reason is that it would not be possible to do the same in > HTML, as in HTML it is not possible to check if the target exists. Even if this cannot possibly be done in HTML (and I'm not yet sure), it shouldn't stop us from doing that in Info. After all, HTML output lacks several features of Info output already, and it doesn't stop us.