From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: package and testing rant (was Re: package.el, auto-installation, and auto-removal) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:03:54 +0200 Message-ID: <83egt9n2qd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87a943umku.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87ppcvm7fj.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87vbmndk46.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87wq72ls2h.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <87k332lnn3.fsf_-_@ferrier.me.uk> <87389qklr7.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1415721879 30541 80.91.229.3 (11 Nov 2014 16:04:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 16:04:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nic Ferrier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 11 17:04:33 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XoDvk-0005zS-Ly for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:04:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49454 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XoDvk-000351-8N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:04:32 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50672) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XoDvN-0002xP-3f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:04:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XoDvG-0001Sk-RT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:04:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:47596) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XoDvG-0001Sa-KK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:04:02 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NEV00000TUL8200@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:04:01 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NEV000OETYO8000@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:04:01 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <87389qklr7.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.172 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:176754 Archived-At: > From: Nic Ferrier > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:41:16 +0000 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > Note that there is a fair bit a pressure to *add* rather than remove > > magic steps (the first candidate in the list is to build the *.info > > files from the *.texi files). > > I agree. If the build was clearly separated this pressure would move > away into the build tools. > [...] > Why do we want to move things into elpa.git? because we can fix bugs and > add features quicker. Please let's not forget that most users of ELPA are not developers, they are users. For a user, it's an annoyance when fetching a package requires to "build" it, especially if that "build" stage requires extra tools (beyond Emacs itself) and other dependencies, let alone dealing with possible error messages, failure to build, etc. Sacrificing user convenience of installing a package to make our lives as developers easier sounds backwards to me. So, from my POV, the ideal should be "no build stage", and the only files to be generated during the installation should be those that Emacs can do itself, as part of the fetching and installation.