From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: lax matching is not a great default behavior Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2015 17:36:33 +0200 Message-ID: <83egf6kwou.fsf@gnu.org> References: <565D66FD.9090400@online.de> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1448984230 22302 80.91.229.3 (1 Dec 2015 15:37:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 15:37:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jwiegley@gmail.com, schwab@linux-m68k.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Andreas =?iso-8859-15?Q?R=F6hler?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 01 16:37:01 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1a3mzE-0004QF-Ic for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2015 16:37:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53298 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a3mzD-00054S-UG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2015 10:36:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36051) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a3myz-00054N-Hh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2015 10:36:47 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a3myu-0000g4-LK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2015 10:36:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout24.012.net.il ([80.179.55.180]:60949) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a3myu-0000fp-Cl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2015 10:36:40 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout24.012.net.il by mtaout24.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NYO00C00QRBER00@mtaout24.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Dec 2015 17:29:24 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by mtaout24.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NYO008PZR10OH40@mtaout24.012.net.il>; Tue, 01 Dec 2015 17:29:24 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <565D66FD.9090400@online.de> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.180 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:195676 Archived-At: > From: Andreas R=F6hler > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 10:23:09 +0100 > Cc: John Wiegley , Andreas Schwab , > =09Drew Adams >=20 > Notion resp. implementation of case-folding is unclear outside ASCI= I and related. What is "related" to ASCII? Do you mean Latin characters? If so, th= e notion of case-folding is clearly well beyond these: Cyrillic and Greek characters are 2 obvious examples. Moreover, the Unicode Character Database has other scripts that have "small" and "capital" variants of letters: Armenian, Georgian, Coptic= , and a few old scripts. Also, many symbols have small and capital variants. IOW, this attribute is in no way limited to ASCII and Lati= n scripts. Scripts that don't support case variants are not affected by case-folding at all in Emacs. > There must not be anything to be folded in a buffer. Folding is a n= otion which makes sense in special cases only - which are common in A= SCII world, but not a reason for a default. As mentioned before, this is contrary to a long-standing tradition in Emacs: searches are case-insensitive by default, and not only for ASCII characters. Emacs is primarily a programmer's editor, and most programming languages use ASCII characters for program source. So by your own logic above, case-folding should make a lot of sense in many Emacs buffers. > New users should not be bothered with this vast area. I don't think they are bothered. The defaults work seamlessly, no bother is expected or required. > GNU Linux is case-sensitive and Emacs should start by default like = that. I don't think the fact that Linux filesystems are case-sensitive is relevant to searching buffer text for strings. They are two entirely unrelated features.