unofficial mirror of emacs-devel@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: "Andreas Röhler" <andreas.roehler@online.de>
Cc: jwiegley@gmail.com, schwab@linux-m68k.org, drew.adams@oracle.com,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: lax matching is not a great default behavior
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2015 17:36:33 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83egf6kwou.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <565D66FD.9090400@online.de>

> From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@online.de>
> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 10:23:09 +0100
> Cc: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>, Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org>,
> 	Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> 
> Notion resp. implementation of case-folding is unclear outside ASCII and related.

What is "related" to ASCII?  Do you mean Latin characters?  If so, the
notion of case-folding is clearly well beyond these: Cyrillic and
Greek characters are 2 obvious examples.

Moreover, the Unicode Character Database has other scripts that have
"small" and "capital" variants of letters: Armenian, Georgian, Coptic,
and a few old scripts.  Also, many symbols have small and capital
variants.  IOW, this attribute is in no way limited to ASCII and Latin
scripts.

Scripts that don't support case variants are not affected by
case-folding at all in Emacs.

> There must not be anything to be folded in a buffer. Folding is a notion which makes sense in special cases only - which are common in ASCII world, but not a reason for a default.

As mentioned before, this is contrary to a long-standing tradition in
Emacs: searches are case-insensitive by default, and not only for
ASCII characters.  Emacs is primarily a programmer's editor, and most
programming languages use ASCII characters for program source.  So by
your own logic above, case-folding should make a lot of sense in many
Emacs buffers.

> New users should not be bothered with this vast area.

I don't think they are bothered.  The defaults work seamlessly, no
bother is expected or required.

> GNU Linux is case-sensitive and Emacs should start by default like that.

I don't think the fact that Linux filesystems are case-sensitive is
relevant to searching buffer text for strings.  They are two entirely
unrelated features.




  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-12-01 15:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-11-28  5:04 lax matching is not a great default behavior Drew Adams
2015-11-28  8:29 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-11-28 14:50   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-01  9:23   ` Andreas Röhler
2015-12-01 10:38     ` Andreas Schwab
2015-12-01 10:42       ` Yuri Khan
2015-12-01 15:38         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 15:36     ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2015-11-28  8:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]   ` <<m2mvtv1ldi.fsf@newartisans.com>
2015-11-30 16:51   ` John Wiegley
2015-12-01 14:40     ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-01 15:55       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 18:49         ` Mark Oteiza
2015-12-01 18:56           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 19:32             ` David Kastrup
2015-12-01 19:36               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 19:38             ` Mark Oteiza
2015-12-01 19:36           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-12-01 19:51             ` Mark Oteiza
2015-12-01 20:01               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 20:04                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01 23:31                   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-12-01 23:45                     ` Drew Adams
2015-12-02  3:37                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-02  8:23                       ` martin rudalics
2015-12-02 13:45                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-02 13:06                       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-12-02 13:44                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-02 17:25                           ` Artur Malabarba
     [not found]               ` <<83r3j6j5vj.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                 ` <<83poyqj5qb.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-12-01 21:17                   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-02 17:52         ` Richard Stallman
2015-12-03 22:27         ` Per Starbäck
2015-12-03 23:00           ` Drew Adams
2015-12-04  0:09             ` Artur Malabarba
2015-12-04  8:28           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04  9:33             ` Per Starbäck
2015-12-04 10:10               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04 10:57                 ` David Kastrup
2015-12-04 11:19                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04 12:04                 ` Per Starbäck
2015-12-04 14:42                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04 17:47                     ` John Wiegley
2015-12-05  8:02                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-04 15:55             ` Drew Adams
2015-12-04 19:05               ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]       ` <<83610ikvto.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]         ` <<CADkQgvs-WvPX=qZ0B_un9j53RF6S4V5OmDTATSW1ZwTY50o2Rg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]           ` <<83bna6ipn7.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]             ` <<45e1580a-863c-4bd7-82ec-38c27a0d930e@default>
     [not found]               ` <<831tb2ghkf.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-12-04 21:30                 ` Drew Adams
2015-12-04 22:16                   ` David Kastrup
2015-12-04 22:37                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-12-04 23:08                       ` David Kastrup
2015-12-04 23:57                     ` Drew Adams
2015-12-05  7:53                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-12-01  3:54   ` Discussions that led to changes in the defaults, was: " Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-28  8:49 ` David Kastrup
     [not found] <<d77851fd-da55-4020-82e8-abbd13f9b048@default>
     [not found] ` <<83twnxfi0h.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-12-05  9:27   ` Drew Adams
2015-12-05 11:15     ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]   ` <<6741424b-fb48-48d1-a2fe-a5b755373c46@default>
     [not found]     ` <<83fuzhf8op.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-12-05 15:59       ` Drew Adams
2015-12-06  1:37         ` John Wiegley
     [not found] <<c9f3197f-b5f3-42f3-817c-bf560842b4d7@default>

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=83egf6kwou.fsf@gnu.org \
    --to=eliz@gnu.org \
    --cc=andreas.roehler@online.de \
    --cc=drew.adams@oracle.com \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=jwiegley@gmail.com \
    --cc=schwab@linux-m68k.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).