From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2018 23:04:17 +0300 Message-ID: <83efduil32.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org>> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm>> <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default>> <20180910181615.GA4829@ACM>> > <874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net>> <20180912131602.GA5582@ACM>> <87d0tihxzw.fsf@toy.adminart.net>> <20180913174640.GB4019@ACM>> <8736udkuit.fsf@toy.adminart.net>> <20180914104833.GA4103@ACM>> > <83k1nojgia.fsf@gnu.org>> <7bed1f76-5bae-44cb-9b22-206b513043be@default>> <83d0tfkj77.fsf@gnu.org>> <1c393214-c186-4760-9a37-e0450c946446@default> <83zhwji4hx.fsf@gnu.org> <83lg82ixw0.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537041788 15478 195.159.176.226 (15 Sep 2018 20:03:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:03:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 15 22:03:03 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g1GmV-0003vD-Kc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 22:03:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56560 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1Goc-0005LG-9F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:05:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36958) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1Gnv-0005HT-GP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:04:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1Gnr-0002Of-Cx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:04:31 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46546) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1Gnr-0002N6-62; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:04:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1646 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1g1Gnq-0000zW-5g; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:04:27 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sat, 15 Sep 2018 14:30:35 -0400) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229822 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2018 14:30:35 -0400 > > >> > Fine, then we agree. The above issue is not relevant to what I > >> > perceive as the main problem here: how to give us a way to allow > >> > turning on delete-selection-mode without alienating users who have no > >> > use for it and very much dislike its effects, in particular when those > >> > effects are unintended. > >> AFAIK d-s-m has currently only 2 effects: > >> - delete the selection before self-insert-command > >> - same before yank > >> In both cases, if that's not what the user intended, an important > >> question is: why was the region active before those commands? > > Because the user did "C-x C-x"? > > So again the problem is not with d-s-m but with C-x C-x, then. I never said there was some "problem" with delete-selection-mode. It's not delete-selection-mode that is the problem, it's the fact that we use the region for 3 different purposes. > I think many users who are heavy users of the marks for navigation would > benefit from a "halfway" setting for transient-mark-mode, where commands > like C-M-SPC, M-h etc... still activate the region, but where C-SPC, and > C-x C-x don't. Did you read any of my messages? I think we can have that cake and eat it, too.