From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Android port of Emacs Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 09:00:44 +0300 Message-ID: <83edmask4z.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83v8fnslfz.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20081"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 17 08:01:58 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qAP0Y-00051M-04 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 08:01:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAOzQ-0003Wv-Kb; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 02:00:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAOzP-0003WY-5o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 02:00:47 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAOzO-0001sx-Rq; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 02:00:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=4ti3Dieu87+gOwqwMJOaXbGmUFaeWV0IN6Uek7/axOA=; b=E8x55jkSJsjO jTCgmveYz0Bp+uPxgNTt7KIXbmTRorL8j5yuRSQtUHTewq9DScUriIcpt8hWhf+G2n7C/BwvsJ6nS jx0frFnYCOV94iszjtamUAva80EIVPlNTk3XTbw3FfgxOygQB4v0DVfmw9tNZo2mlPuiIHfzfl+h3 tf1447eF+3KtFEWIROsJtSpn4kSO/rggvACnyqYeoombdNdDVllHtoLk3x/jL8FJ/9kciaZNJFpCI RmSCumzhmNC4wgrdzOW1ejEqBwsXcLG+6NHdimvPZoVdNmNcF063+ToNbOTOpK4MTowk4pEWmnqa4 +jjOU+TAs3W1eK0SplcqTw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAOzO-0003eL-Bc; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 02:00:46 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from chad on Fri, 16 Jun 2023 17:19:05 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:306852 Archived-At: > From: chad > Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 17:19:05 -0400 > > Before discussing whether these tradeoffs are worth it or not, is anything I've said above obviously > wrong, under-informed, or out of date? It is not, AFAIU. But it is also not relevant to the issue that bothers me. The macOS/NS code is already written, and likewise the w32 code. It took us many years to come up with that, but, incrementally, we did. So arguing that those platforms nowadays have lots of LOC doesn't help. Moreover, the code specific to these two ports, by and large, closely resembles the corresponding parts of X code (xfns.c, xterm.c), with rather minimal deviations in the w32 case and more significant deviations in the case of NS. And even so, the w32 and NS ports are already problematic: the former has basically a single maintainer/developer (yours truly), the latter doesn't have even that. The results are clear, if not for everyone: the w32 port falls behind in features, and the NS port is basically already badly broken, having unacceptable display problems on at least some modern systems. So what bothers me is whether we as the project should take another such port upon ourselves, instead of leaving it to others to develop and maintain it outside of the upstream project. Because if we take it upon ourselves, I don't see any way of making sure the Android port will not go the way of w32 and NS soon enough, maybe the moment we land it. Everything else brought up here is not relevant. I understand very well the tremendous advantages of having Emacs support yet another widely-used platform, and not only for the users of that platform, but also for Emacs itself. So posting opinions about those aspects doesn't contribute to the discussion I'd like to have here, and doesn't advance us as the project to making the decision, from my POV.