From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stop fiddling with my preferences Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 17:54:18 +0200 Message-ID: <83d2838ixh.fsf@gnu.org> References: <831totswav.fsf@gnu.org> <20141130235724153372947@bob.proulx.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417449300 17503 80.91.229.3 (1 Dec 2014 15:55:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 15:55:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Bob Proulx Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 01 16:54:53 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XvTJ7-0007MA-67 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2014 16:54:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60675 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XvTJ6-0007L9-Sf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2014 10:54:36 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38541) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XvTIo-0007L2-KN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2014 10:54:23 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XvTIj-0002iM-Fx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2014 10:54:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout25.012.net.il ([80.179.55.181]:58961) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XvTIj-0002iG-8E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2014 10:54:13 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout25.012.net.il by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NFW00L00UETRG00@mtaout25.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2014 17:49:53 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NFW00MLNUN5CC00@mtaout25.012.net.il>; Mon, 01 Dec 2014 17:49:53 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <20141130235724153372947@bob.proulx.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178584 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 00:15:53 -0700 > From: Bob Proulx > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Roland Lutz wrote: > > > operating systems, but does this make it appropriate for Emacs? One of > > > the reasons I'm using mature software is exactly that I *don't* have to be > > > worried with each new version that ESC won't stop playing animated GIFs > > > any more, etc. > > > > We change user-visible behavior in response to user demand, not > > because Emacs is immature. User demands and expectations change with > > time, and Emacs cannot stay with old defaults forever. > > I often hear developers saying this. But I rarely hear users asking > for these (mis)features. You should read this list more frequently, then. Typically, each such decision (or indecision) is accompanied by a very long discussion here, with core developers usually _resisting_ radical changes that break old habits. We, too, use Emacs, you know. Here's a discussion related to that particular (mis)feature. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-10/msg00407.html > Therefore what it feels like is actually happening is that when > developers want to do something they just do it and claim that users > want it. When they don't want to do it then they claim they can't > because of backward compatibility. That's extremely unfair. The truth is almost the opposite. I invite you to read the archives of this list and see for yourself. Perhaps others could point to additional discussions regarding similar changes (turning on font-lock globally comes to mind).