Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 4e23cd0 4/5: * mail/rmail.el (rmail-show-message-1): When displaying a mime message,

[Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>]

> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 01:32:49 +0300
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> CC: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> On 04/05/2015 11:07 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > Wrong impression.
> 
> Okay then.
> 
> > That item is a dead end in practice, and is too harsh even if it were
> > practical.
> 
> I think it was one of the discussed options. And why a dead end?

Because Richard explicitly said he didn't want that.

> > You are missing the point: I meant "C-x v v", not some other command
> > available with VC.  It's "C-x v v" that got Richard in trouble in the
> > first place, by trying to commit a single file in the middle of a
> > failed merge.
> 
> And I meant that an automated solution would be great to have, but it's 
> the responsibility of every committer to pay attention and not mess up.

Newbies often do mess up.  Emacs should try to keep them out of
trouble as much as practically possible.  E.g., we have the "disabled
command" feature that we use for risky commands, for a similar
purpose.

> >> Editing the already-created commits is more complicated, but I think
> >> there was some advice on that subject too, in the humongous thread.
> >
> > It's also on the Wiki.
> 
> "If you made a mistake"? That only helps when we need to change the most 
> recent commit. Which is good, but probably not enough.

Then please tell what you had in mind, perhaps it would be good to
have that added.

> > I don't think there's lack of motivation in this case.
> 
> In my book, "I want everything to work like CVS" means a lack of 
> motivation to learn.

In my book it's an understandable position of a busy person who wants
a simple job of making an upstream change to "just work".  Such people
_will_ learn with good help, but much slower.

GitQuickStartForEmacsDevs was written with these people in mind.

> >> But not everyone has to be an Emacs committer. That's not harsh: people
> >> can have better priorities in life.
> >
> > Applied to veteran Emacs developers, it _is_ harsh, at least IMO.
> 
> Maybe to any other veteran, but since Richard holds the "master key" 
> anyway, that wouldn't be like locking him out of the project.

I think you fail to understand how humiliating that would be.  That's
okay, let's talk in, say, 30 years, and see where you stand then ;-)

> Considering the mega-thread is clocking at 505 messages now, would it 
> really not have been a better solution?

No, not really.  Not IMO, anyway.

> >> Cue the "teach a man how to fish" proverb. It seems to me that the
> >> result is only one fish on Richard's table, and one that was pretty
> >> haphazardly prepared.
> >
> > We all need help from time to time.  I see no reason to tell people
> > they goofed too many times, especially if they already know that.
> 
> "Haphazardly prepared" by other people, of course, because there's 
> really no possible way to reliably get instructions from this large a 
> crowd, all shouting at the same time.

When someone is in grave trouble, what do you expect?  He can be
taught fishing after he's out of trouble, but not before.  You don't
start teaching people how to avoid a fire before putting the fire out.