From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: make prog2 a macro Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2016 09:11:09 +0300 Message-ID: <83d1jbid4y.fsf@gnu.org> References: Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1475907122 24966 195.159.176.226 (8 Oct 2016 06:12:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2016 06:12:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: me@wilfred.me.uk, tino.calancha@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Noam Postavsky Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 08 08:11:58 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bskrL-0004nr-2H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 08:11:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39445 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bskrJ-0007F7-I7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 02:11:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49224) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bskql-0007F2-40 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 02:11:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bskqk-0003g6-5O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 02:11:11 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41156) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bskqf-0003d3-Ez; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 02:11:05 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2339 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bskqc-0001am-BJ; Sat, 08 Oct 2016 02:11:03 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Noam Postavsky on Fri, 7 Oct 2016 22:35:04 -0400) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208074 Archived-At: > From: Noam Postavsky > Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2016 22:35:04 -0400 > Cc: emacs-devel , Tino Calancha > > The "Lisp debugger" may be referring to `debug', not `edebug'. See bug > #3466 - "have `d' in debugger treat macro expansion like `c' does". > That said, I think prog2 is rare enough (a quick M-x rgrep over Emacs' > lisp code found only 66 matches vs 874 for prog1 and 8585 for progn) > that it wouldn't really matter that much. Sorry, but I don't find that small number to be negligible. Debugging Emacs Lisp code in core is already too hard; e.g., too frequently I need to resort to "printf debugging". I object to any further difficulties in this area, so if we want to make this a macro, that bug needs to be fixed first. In any case, this issue is no more than a nice-to-have, whereas debugging difficulties are much more important to solve, for a project which long ago entered the maintenance phase of its life cycle. Thanks.