From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 21:24:20 +0300 Message-ID: <83d07ze5uz.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8wXYP4GY9hwW-9mYv6_LGMETZ8Vz3Ob1Bec6yh6kPT7yxjTkxA3V6dXY4ELra9tYiJUxJmgXKSIEX4w8HFiPRoeGVSQHDSoBVy1voj1e3Qo=@protonmail.com> <833694f29y.fsf@gnu.org> <4amRIW9fznS6sa3th4xPABzua9LQDlNPeIFxVsGYdq_wsg4-Ea1l9sEP-T6QrnO5QMV3jhgrnAspk2mSIC7COlodqr04koAcIPYPLLmPHFM=@protonmail.com> <83imhzecc5.fsf@gnu.org> <83y2qvcjv6.fsf@gnu.org> <83k12ed20s.fsf@gnu.org> <83blnqctyj.fsf@gnu.org> <9341072a-cf53-9092-2211-aa97c946e5b1@yandex.ru> <838sinfygb.fsf@gnu.org> <16fad982-e95b-7df1-25d0-1c666a6f8120@gmail.com> <83tv1begq5.fsf@gnu.org> <525fe795-0716-a224-ded0-00e49548aa3d@yandex.ru> <83lfmne9z1.fsf@gnu.org> <67546075-1419-acd2-53cd-f44d101bc26b@yandex.ru> <83k127e8vc.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="130647"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: cpitclaudel@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 22 20:26:39 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jRK51-000XrS-9R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 20:26:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55780 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRK50-0004Du-EL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:26:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52672) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRK38-0001f9-LO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:24:44 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34728) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jRK37-0000xL-8B; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:24:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2160 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jRK35-0006b8-7D; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:24:39 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from chad on Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:07:32 -0700) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247545 Archived-At: > From: chad > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:07:32 -0700 > Cc: Dmitry Gutov , Clément Pit-Claudel , > EMACS development team > > I would agree with this "not really" sentiment, but extend it to include the differences between icon themes, > and where such things work at the OS level, between OS's. The point of icon themes is to make them all fit > together, and the point of standardized system icons is to have them all fit together, and the users have > shown (for many, many years now) that they understand this, and can handle the shifts with aplomb. Yes, it > is possible for someone to install a wacky gui-customization pack that changes the left-arrow into a sausage > and the file-folder into a rainbow, but the only people who do such things are askign for exactly that behavior, > and aren't going to be upset that emacs' toolbar changes along with everything else. There's no argument that having a capability to change the set of icons as part of a theme would be a good feature for Emacs to have. So arguments for having that are, from my POV, preaching to the choir. The argument, or at least its part about which I expressed concerns, was to use exclusively the icons provided by the toolkit+desktop that happen to be in use. That's an entirely different matter, if we want to make it pour policy. > As a practical matter, emacs will need a set of reasonable fallback defaults, for systems that don't have > system-wide settings Only if we decide we _want_ to use those system-wide defaults where they do exist. > A techincal wrinkle here is how those icons are displayed and how they're stored inside emacs. They aren't. They are separate image files which we load when needed. And I think it should be left that way, because it will make it easier for us to include new icons in the distribution. > By way of > example, the two KDE icon sets that were suggested (Breeze and Oxygen) use different file formats: one > uses PNG images; the other SVG. (Oddly, the SVG images are distributed in several different sizes, which > would seem to belie the advantage of using scalable images in the first place.) Scalable icons like SVG > would be nice for the current era of high- and low-density displays, but my understanding is that SVG is the > least well supported image format inside emacs across our various platforms these days. SVG is IMO a PITA because librsvg is a monster. But other than that, SVG images are a fait accompli, and we need to support them well.