From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2023 15:53:52 +0200 Message-ID: <83cywgwg3z.fsf@gnu.org> References: <871qd8sfdx.fsf@posteo.net> <838r7g8pys.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <8734xetjkk.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywhsrcf.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywgx1z0.fsf@web.de> <83wmuowwp3.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21609"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 11 14:54:25 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r1oRM-0005P3-M4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 14:54:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1oR1-00088s-F8; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 08:54:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1oQz-000879-3s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 08:54:01 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1oQy-0003Vr-Qc; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 08:54:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=YWgSnlsGisT23d4hwYd4XA+CNgJn6xrvM/w8TKUtPH4=; b=OwfyNpk7xyVXuSPUXUbl 8EEDrQjPas9rjjkVtZ6yBbhlWmLI1TonlLku4i0ErY2Py1M2B3g53s0Znc6gERXPON/3KftlIIIwf gy3NM1EiV2CHacwsCUOltC3QgtfTmqTYR2I8GiW9OWXkanPQZQZdC6ljPGWSiAungmp5iK6dZu6BT G1rvtE4vyghkTCF2SAJVimoBYRK+vuKCF8R43tbiprQowLNvBxiqFBdm3GcZm+0PWlftzPBZD+UWt n3M9BNVOZR0GJbikw4kVpjQSocm/bc3DKwuIiXtCXKXYxixVWD3fhoWHOLWW0QIB/MJmrjtmMRZWA 3qdZr5UjYKNnvg==; In-Reply-To: (message from =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= on Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:09:11 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312567 Archived-At: > From: João Távora > Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:09:11 +0000 > Cc: Michael Heerdegen , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 7:56 AM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > > - keep cl-lib available to it's current extent for end users > > > > > > - try to get unnecessary cl-lib uses out of the code base > > > > > > - make useful cl ideas available in the core language > > > > These are exactly our goals. We've been doing this for years: that's > > how stuff like 'when', 'unless', 'push', 'pop', and others got into > > the core. > > > > IOW, the way to make some cl-lib functionality freely available in > > core is to have a similar or identical implementation in the likes of > > subr.el or seq.el, using our naming convention instead of cl-FOO. > > I generally agree with the goal of bringing in cl-lib.el ideas into > core, but it must be said here that seq.el, despite being a sequence > processing library, should NOT be viewed as a drop-in replacement > for cl-lib.el counterparts That (and the rest of your message) completely misses my point, and doesn't even belong to this discussion, to tell the truth.