From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Efforts to attract more users? Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:33:39 +0300 Message-ID: <83bpadt7z0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <871vb9k0ob.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83ocedtbf9.fsf@gnu.org> <87tyo5i0r2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278923794 5465 80.91.229.12 (12 Jul 2010 08:36:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:36:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 12 10:36:30 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYEV1-0007VC-Nc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:36:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46029 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYEV1-0001Tk-46 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:36:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=38623 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYEUt-0001Tf-T7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:36:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYEUs-0006la-MU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:36:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:37102) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYEUs-0006lQ-CE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:36:18 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L5F00H00RURC700@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:35:40 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.120.144]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L5F00EL7RVFDL80@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:35:40 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87tyo5i0r2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127093 Archived-At: > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, > lennart.borgman@gmail.com, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:05:05 +0900 > > > It's a shame that Emacs development seems to lose Lennart's resources > > of time and energy, but I really don't see how things could go > > differently, > > It's very easy to see how it could go differently. Do what he asks, > on a case by case business. Of course you have to get papers. And > you have to reserve the right to make arbitrary changes to his > contributed code. I explained elsewhere why I think this is not a good use of my time. I can easily understand why Juanma would think it's not a good use of his time, either. > But I suspect that as long as it works he won't even check what you > did to fit it into Emacs coding style etc. Wrong assumption. And, of course, coding conventions is not the only issue with these contributions. More often than not, the implementation is just plain wrong, based on purely phenomenological evidence, and lacking any real understanding of how the relevant parts of Emacs work. Explaining how things really work does not help, because the only outcome is another endless argument. > And finally, the code has to be worth making an exception. Maybe I'm > misjudging what this is worth to Emacs; on that, I concede that you > and Juanma are far better judges than I ever will be. Both of us (and Jason Rumney, when he had more time to spend on this) were always almost unanimous in our critical opinions. If you think it helped convince Lennart to budge, think again.