From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: HTML-Info design Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 05:53:04 +0200 Message-ID: <83bnmvowdb.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87388bnzha.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87k31mdbhe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx0qiv45.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9wqd3i5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87h9wqimf0.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87y4q1fekv.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87fvc858c6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ioh4nf8k.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <83y4pzptpx.fsf@gnu.org> <871tnr1gqo.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1419306827 16287 80.91.229.3 (23 Dec 2014 03:53:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 03:53:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: stephen@xemacs.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nic Ferrier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 23 04:53:40 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3GXS-0004XB-Eb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Dec 2014 04:53:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42955 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3GXR-0005bL-HF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:53:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46251) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3GXC-0005aO-GA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:53:27 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3GX7-0006tQ-L4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:53:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout25.012.net.il ([80.179.55.181]:57538) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3GX7-0006tM-Cm; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:53:17 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout25.012.net.il by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NH000600N5ATU00@mtaout25.012.net.il>; Tue, 23 Dec 2014 05:49:04 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NH0001HKNXRIL60@mtaout25.012.net.il>; Tue, 23 Dec 2014 05:49:04 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <871tnr1gqo.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180529 Archived-At: > From: Nic Ferrier > Cc: stephen@xemacs.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:06:55 +0000 > > > . Summary: OK as a POC, but IMO more work is needed to make sure a > > functional equivalent of the Info reader is indeed feasible and > > practical with this technology. > > You're wrong. This POC is proof that an info reader is feasible. Nothing > you have pointed as it substantive except search and we absolutely know > that could be done. How can we know that without even trying to implement a substantial subset of what Info does? Your current implementation is 300-line long; if the addition of at least the basic Info features will take it to 3000, then what did we gain? And if you cannot get rid of the right-to-left display of the prompts for index and menu items, this implementation is simply unacceptable, because it means we cannot control its display. IOW, your POC proves that it can be done, buit its not enough to convince me that it could be done well enough. > This has not moved only because: > > 1. the next obvious massively beneficial step is a difficult and time > consuming one - to generate the info for all the manuals because a proxy > is not scalable > > 2. no one else is helping, despite many people being excited about > it. Hey what's new? It will never move unless you decide to go ahead. Nothing substantial ever gets done in Emacs by excitement and talk.